1) Incomplete use of the whole human history in regards to the uses of any of the Charismatic/spiritual gifts. How many have died, been killed, set on fire just for using any of the gifts? This is well known to the common people at the time. If the spirit chooses to work through you. Then you, your family and anyone who was associated with you could be burned at the stake as you. These are terrible lessons learned by the common people. The church authority of that time could not afford anyone to become greater than they. So the Holy spirit does not wish to cause harm. Does not give it's gifts to just anyone out in the open.
2) I do believe there are three kinds of gifts. The gifts given by God. The gifts from Jesus Christs to His chosen Apostles and the gifts from the Holy Spirit. The gifts from the Holy Spirit may or may not be permanent. I think the gifts of the Holy Spirit seen today are of the temporary ones or single use.
The Apostolic gifts should have their evidence as tested within the person. The office of the Apostle is not a position which can be voted on by men. The office of the Apostleship is Jesus Christ given ONLY. In which the evidence is clearly seen and cannot be argued when witnessed.
3) The lies and deceptions within the entire church body. The absence of apparent righteousness within the leadership as well as with the common peoples. There seems to be a state of continuous Impiety everywhere. Thus, is evidenced of Zero effective revivals and no real evidence of any usees of any of the Spiritual/Charismatic gifts.
Incomplete Work: Note Form:
Well, There is a boat load of content. For both sides. Since I have never heard of Christian Cessationism or Christian Continuationism and upon skimming the arguments. I would agree with Cessationism. But, I don't as I have had and have seen The Holy Spirit at work. Before, I became a Christian. After I became a very bad Christian by mouth only and when it was convenient to be a Christian. Then the unwilling Christian. The I still want to sin Christian. The enslaved Christian. The angry Christian. The Lego Batman "Fine, Fine, Fine" Christian. Then there is now. Which means I'm not yet there yet as a good Christian. So if I do forget about this. Post a comment or message me in order to remind me to get back to this. If it even matters.
11 second batman video. https://youtu.be/kPsjyQYHC1k
As a reminder. The Holy Spirit is an intelligent entity. It does it's own will with or even without your approval. The Holy Spirit cannot be proven by any human standard means. Which means. I will not be able to prove against Christian Cessationism in any way or by any degree. I have not even started looking into Christian Continuationism. I do know it is the opposite of Christian Cessationism. I'm pretty sure I won't be able to prove that one either. Since it does involve the Holy Spirit. So up front. If your looking for the answer. There won't be one. That is all I can say for now. Although, i have prayed on them and I get a common link to them both. That link is one word and it is "Righteousness".
So if you already know more than me. Find the use of the word Righteous or Righteousness in either argument or absent. As a matter of fact check for word terms related to Impiety.
The charismatic gifts is alive and well. Just look at the huge mega Churches. Led by people who sometimes fall victim to crimes and sins. Just look at the history of televangelism. Those charismatic teachers who have fallen hard. Some even went to jail and are still on the T.V.
Benjamin B. Warfield
I just twittered Dr. Streiner and he responded. Wow. Way cool.
The truth of prophecy is not taught anywhere. That I know of. Prophecy is about either absolute or probability. For Instance. A natural event may be absolute while a man made event or decision can be prevented. Much bad paraphrasing.
"In the story of Joseph and the Pharaoh. The Pharaoh had a dream. Joseph interpreted the dream. He told Pharaoh that were all gonna die after the good seasons. Yea, It will be bad for this living god (lie)."
The Pharaoh who is a living god(lie) wanted to live and have his peeps serve him. So he made the gifted organizer the number 2 dude in all of the land. Thus, The prophetic dream became mostly wrong and the interpretation also mostly wrong. What happened. They were able to mitigate and alter the definite outcome. If they did not begin to prepare now.
In today's society we still have prophets every where. We call them mentors. These are people who teach and lead young persons out of the darkness and hopeless future into something better and brighter. A mentor is essentially a person who sees bad prophecy in others and works to mitigate their lives for a better probable future.
Any prophecy which is yet to be known or seen. Can all be prevented. Especially if they are very negative. Like with Joseph. This includes all of the Christian prophecies. The purpose of any negative prophecy is to prevent and or mitigate them. Not glorify in them as Billions of people die around you.
Was Moses actually given the capacity to work miracles by his own human will or was Moses just a conduit of the will of God. Who did miracles through Moses. Did Moses even know what was coming every time he planted his staff? I do not think he did know. Re-read Moses.
I do think there is a difference between the spiritual/charismatic gifts then the gifts of the Apostles. Just as there seems to be a difference between the Christ given gifts and the gifts given or worked through the selected by the Holy spirit. In which there could be a third form of gifts. The God given gifts. Which seems very illusive to track and to test. All of which must be tested.
Added on 28 Aug 2015:
I've just done a skim through of the presented arguments for Cessationism. They are missing a lot of information. Which I think is crucial. Number one being the difference between those who are devoutly religious, Religious by mouth only and those who have become righteous as seen by only God.
I have learned much about Apostles. Very eye opening. Especially in this time. When a lot of people want to be called apostles. It should be easy to tell the liars from the real deal. The flow of actual and easily provable miracles shall follow the real deal Apostle. The liar and deceiver apostle shall have no miracles and only magic tricks and illusions to fool the people.
I do not think anyone wants to be an Apostle. Since Saul. Becoming a genuine Apostle is not by your choice. Becoming an Apostle is not something no other human being can vote on and declare to be so. Becoming an Apostle cannot be awarded, graduated from reading many books. Jesus Christ/Yahsua.
I do see an absence of history in regards to common people and how they were treated by anyone in the clergy. This can even be seen today in every church. Lets see. The burning at the stakes. Accusations of sorcery, witch craft and etc. To the blocks until the devil is out of ya. Any person who was not of any church leadership who knew anything and that thing was not reasonably sourced. They were murdered or was excommunicated. Today, the way every church is organized. You have one singular leader, elders, deacons and other leadership persons. Anyone who proclaims anything in which is not commonly known. They are hushed up and declared a distraction from the show. In which today's church meetings are shows/venues. You pay admission through your tithes.
There is no room for the Holy Spirit to work. No man can limit or make time for the Holy Spirit to work. No man can give permission or decline the Holy spirit to work. The Holy Spirit shall work as it sees fit. I suspect, the Holy Spirit has a do no harm policy though. Not sure. Have not received that Email.
Approximately 400 pastors and church leaders caught on Ashley Madison. Will the common people ever know? Righteous pretenders caught in their Impiety. This as well as other lies and deceptions taught to the Christian followers may also be a reason why the Holy Spirit is not evident.
29 Aug 2015:
Who are we supposed to be as a species called Human Beings? What are we all supposed to have become? We all are supposed to have become a righteous and holy people. By our own free will. All without fear's, threat's or intimidation's. We are all supposed to utilize all of the spiritual gifts at any time we desire. We are supposed to go forth within this dimension and populate the whole universe with life. We are supposed to create planets and stars in there appropriate places. Not as god's, king's or royalty of any kind but as shepherd's, caretaker's and servants.
I guess what I'm trying to say is. We all are supposed to be Apostles and conduits for the continuous flow of the Holy spirit. Instead of like Saul who had no choice in the matter as was most unworthy. He became an Apostle after meeting up with Jesus. Because of that Saul was killed and became Paul.
In time Humanity will reach that absolute failing point. The same failing point that everyone wants to happen so that Jesus himself will come again in response to our complete failure and path to extinction. It just seems like I'm the only one who doesn't want to meet Jesus in person under those circumstances. I do not want to meet Jesus for the same reasons as Saul. I want to meet Jesus in regards to some success, achievement, accomplishment or from something good, right and true. Or maybe just over some green tea in which I would just listen and try to put it all together.
So what of this new concept of Christian Cessationism? I have been praying, meditating and contemplating the whole matter and this is what came up. it just doesn't seem related. Maybe, it is somehow. Just not sure.
No I have not even looked into Christian Continuationism. There is just a lot to read, study and take in.
Added on 30 Aug 2015:
I'm finding myself becoming a Christian Cessationist. I have not yet read the opposing views from Christian Continuationists. It seems I can see the flaws in the argument for Christian cessationism. For instance. Can a face to face meeting with Jesus Christ/Yahshua impart upon that surviving human being a life time of a variety of apostolic gifts? While another person who has become a righteous person. Be gifted in a one time use of a spiritual gift. Which can repeat itself by the sole will of the Holy Spirit. In other words. Just because a person has been gifted a spiritual gift. Does not mean it will repeat itself.
This has been a huge learning curve for me. Trying to put together what all of these PHD's are trying to impart. What about God given spiritual gifts placed into the genetic code of a unique family lineage? Is there anything in the Holy Bible or is this all more into paganism, witchcraft and sorcery? I have met many gifted people who have traced their spiritual related gifts through their family lines. So they say. Or is all of this of satan? or is all of this of God/Jehovah?
really. Who in the Bible is known to have some powers and made a living from their use? How about balam. Didn't he have his third eye? Didn't God/Jehovah speak to him directly? Didn't an angel speak to him? As stupid as he was and very much dis-respectful of God. Didn't Balam plan to cause Israel to curse themselves. In which they did. All against the will of God.
So, Does this mean there are 3 levels or uniqueness of spiritual gifts given to people from the triune nature of the God Head. The Holy Father, the Holy Son and the Holy Spirit. Can they each be backed up in the Holy Bible?
This does lead to the other side. The rule of the air god who is satan as well as his fallen brethren. Which came to this Earth to become god replacements. So, from all that our ancestors learned and observed from them. We have the witchcraft's and the sorcery's. Through them do they also have their three different types of powers? I have not studied to much of these kinds of cult religions. But, I do seem to remember that their is a generational gaining of the use of these powers. The demonic attachments as well as demonic possessions. These all can give powers to that person. Especially, if that person is a willing participant or even a genuine demonic follower.
Yes, I am using the terms of "gifts" meaning from the divine and the term "powers" from the demonic.
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