Showing posts with label Locations. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Locations. Show all posts

Monday, September 21, 2026

In a post-apocalyptic world where most infrastructure has collapsed, what would be the most strategic location to rebuild civilization and why?: (Unedited): 05 Oct 2024


Profile photo for John MacKechnie

Note: Quora links were omitted.  

Welcome Answer: Welcome to the age of agriculture and to the preindustrial age. Your on your own. No one is coming to help you or save you. The answers below are just ideas and hints for you to ascertain where that good and safe location is for you and your own family. I cannot determine that for you and no one else can either. Below are just guidelines for you to consider when you choose your own self determined safe location. There is allot to learn and may require a complete lifestyle change. These decisions are not easy to make. You may discover that your in a do over or start over situation. You can read my other answers on these kind of questions for free here on Quora.

Collapsed Infrastructure Answer: Also includes the losses of civility, law, order, justice, freedom, liberty and human rights, medical care, education as well as every other good idea or ideal.

Before You Decide Where Answer: You need to come to terms with the rule of three’s. You need to understand that food takes more time to grow and harvest than it does to starve to death. You need to understand that there are no actual safe places to live anywhere on this planet. Every place on this planet has it’s own unique seasonal threats and dangers every single year. You need to understand you cannot prevent any seasonal threats and dangers you can only mitigate each one as they present themselves.

First Rule of Castle Building Answer: You need to have direct access to a clean drinking water source. This clean drinking water source cannot be diverted, blocked or poisoned. This clean drinking water source must be all year long and does not dry up even in cycles of 11 years, 22 years, 50 years or 100 years. What this means is this as the planet changes in it’s own time schedule’s. You must be smart enough to move with the ever changing weather patterns or access to clean drinking water, just as the ancient tribal peoples have. Which means you and your community must be able to be mobile. In what time scale I have no idea.

Length Of Growing Season Answer: You need to be in a place which has a sufficiently long growing season.

Water, Land And Time Answer: You must know the total balance of amount of water, land size and length of growing season you have. If you have too much land and insufficient water. Then your crops will die and you starve to death. If your growing season is insufficient but everything else is sufficient. Then you starve to death. The point of this is you must know what you can do and what you cannot do with what you have and not die.

No Machines Answer: You will most likely not have any use of any modern day conveniences. Like ultra cool and ultra expensive farm equipment of any kind. So all of your necessary work will be done by hand and with hand tools.

Strategic Location Considerations List Answer: Ample water. Good predictable weather. Length of growing season. Sufficient fertile land. But, in the opposite area. There are people who have lived in the brutal cold for many thousands of years. Just as people have lived in the driest, wettest, coldest and hottest places on this planet for many thousands of years. People do avoid those places which means they are safe and secure from certain unwanted threats of feral and mean two legged animals.

Post Apocalyptic Issues To Consider: You will need to have in the back of your mind whether or not your upwind or down wind form nuclear power plants. Which means you have to know where those nuclear power plants are and know the seasonal weather patterns. One nuclear reactor which is out of control can become continent killers or ocean killers. In which it may be wise to invite traveling survivors and then ascertain what intelligence they have in regards to people and places. Just be sure to remember not to show anything good or positive to your traveling visitors. Then there are the psychologically defective survivalists who rise themselves up to become self ascribed warlords, gods or dictators. The threat of foreign national powers who thirst for expansion in resource rich lands like CONUS. CONUS is the Continental USA.

Go It Alone Answer: In survival it has been often taught and still is that if you go it alone then you will survive alone. I see this as a falsehood and goes directly against the laws of the animal kingdom and with the history of humanity. So if you want to die alone then go it alone. There is no long term survival when your alone.

Community Answer: Become directly and physically affiliated with a like minded community. A like minded community who have the most variety of preindustrial skill sets per person may become that people group who survives the longest and who may transition into a thriving community.

Your Postindustrial Skill Sets Answer: You, your family, your friends, your neighbors, your community all must have your own functional skill sets, manual tools and manual equipment prior to any apocalyptic event. Think about it. Everything you do must be from cradle to grave. There will not be any big box stores, farm and feed stores, or any thrift stores. How many of you have functioning manual sewing machines or looms and the skill sets to use them? Can you even grow cotton, hemp or raise wool and leather goods? Do you know how to fabricate a needed thing from nothing currently useful?

Health, Youth and Addictions Answer: When you choose a strategic location along with your like minded community. You have to seriously consider health, age, physical fitness and no one having any addictions. The age of survival favors the youth. But, the youth also have to be smart and wise. The over all physical and mental health of the people must be positive and free from any doctors care. The physical fitness of everyone must be like that of a long distance runner or a swimmer.

Addictive And Criminal Dangers Answer: In the aftermath of whatever apocalyptic event or events which may or may not happen. You and your like minded community should not be known to have any addictive substances for sale or trade or to be in possession of. This includes any alcohol, tobacco, drugs of any kind. Your like minded community should not be participants of any crime related activities. Because, to be involved with these bad things will mean that selfish people will want to harm and kill to take what you have. If you have taken or simply acquired what was taken from them. Then revenge may be in order to retrieve those things and to teach you a lesson in a very bad way. The long term risks are not worth it. The point of this is that no matter where you choose to live. Your going to have to deal with people in a variety of settings. You can keep them positive or criminal. You can take care of people or take advantage of people. No matter what you do. There will be a price to pay.

WWIII Strategic Considered Locations Answer: Be far away and upwind from all nuclear bomb target sites, nuclear power plants, Major cities, highways and rail lines. Be far away and upwind from all ports of entry. If you can predict the commonly known flight paths of nuclear bombs, rockets. Then you need to be also far away and upwind from those flight paths as problems can arise during transit, they can be damaged in flight from ballistic missile defense systems and then both the nuclear bombs and your defense missiles come crashing down on top of your noggin and maybe exploding.

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Added on 21 Sept 2026: Conversation with Chat GPT. 
me. sent content.

Ah, Boss. Now we're back in the Quora-to-Blogger transfers. And this one is a good example of why preserving the old answer matters.

Reading the October 5, 2024 answer as 2024 John, rather than trying to make it conform to what you've worked out in 2026, I see a fairly coherent framework underneath some very rough wording.

The central idea is already there

Your answer doesn't actually identify the strategic location.

It says, in effect:

There is no universal safe location. You have to determine what location works for your particular people, resources, water, land, climate and threats.

That's consistent with the later Survival Locations and Survival Homes work.

Your strongest technical concept here is probably this:

Water + land + growing season + human capability must balance.

You repeatedly return to that.

Too much land with insufficient water doesn't help.

A short growing season can defeat otherwise good land.

Modern machinery may disappear.

Therefore the location has to work with human labor and preindustrial tools, not merely with today's agricultural infrastructure.

That's a real progression from “Where is safest?” toward:

“Where can these particular people actually function?”

And there's an interesting precursor to “Three Years = Continuity”

The answer says:

“food takes more time to grow and harvest than it does to starve to death.”

That's one of the fundamental ideas behind your later Rule-of-Threes development.

You're recognizing the time mismatch between consuming an existing resource and reproducing that resource.

That's exactly why your later seed discussion became important.

A pantry can give you time.

But eventually something has to produce the next pantry.

And that is where your later:

Three Years = Continuity

fits naturally into this older answer.

It wasn't fully developed here yet, but the seed of the idea is already present.

The mobility idea is also interesting

Your Castle Building section says the community may have to remain capable of moving as climate/weather patterns change.

I wouldn't treat the specific 11/22/50/100-year cycles as established predictions. They're your planning thought experiment.

But the underlying concept is quite different:

Don't confuse a location with permanent safety.

That is consistent with what you later wrote:

There are no actual safe places to live anywhere on this planet.

The useful part isn't “move every X years.”

It's:

Build enough adaptability into the civilization that changing environmental conditions don't automatically destroy it.

That's a pretty significant idea.

“Go It Alone” is one of the strongest sections

This also connects directly to your seven standalone survival writings.

You weren't really saying:

“Everyone needs a giant survival compound.”

You were saying that a human being is itself part of the survival infrastructure.

A person who can farm but can't repair things needs somebody else.

The person who can repair things needs food.

The person who teaches needs students.

The person who cares for children needs food and protection.

And so on.

Your later phrase functional skill sets is already forming here.

But there are several places where 2024 John gets ahead of the evidence

This is exactly where I'd put the Security Dude red pencil—not to rewrite the Quora answer.

“One nuclear reactor ... continent killers or ocean killers”

That's an overstatement as written.

A severe nuclear-power accident can produce very large regional contamination and potentially international consequences, but “continent killer” or “ocean killer” isn't a technically established description of what one runaway reactor does.

Keep it in the historical answer, but if you add a later discussion, I'd qualify it.

“Upwind” is useful but not permanent

You've already discovered this yourself in later writing.

Wind direction varies by weather and season.

So distance + understanding prevailing/local wind patterns + site-specific assessment is more defensible than treating “upwind” as a permanent geographic property.

The missile-flight-path section

This is probably the weakest practical portion.

The basic avoidance idea—don't put your community near major strategic targets or obvious infrastructure targets—is understandable.

But predicting where intercepted ballistic missiles or warheads will fall isn't something a civilian planner can reliably do.

And I wouldn't expand that section into operational military analysis.

The health section also needs our later qualification

The 2024 wording:

“free from any doctors care”

is much too absolute.

Your later thinking has moved toward medical capability and continuity, not eliminating medicine.

The deeper question is:

What medical problems can this community handle itself, and what happens when outside medical infrastructure becomes unavailable?

That's much stronger.

Likewise, “the age of survival favors the youth” captures one obvious physical consideration, but it risks throwing away exactly the people your later work recognizes as valuable repositories of knowledge and skills.

An elderly person may not be able to plow a field—but could know how to preserve food, repair something, teach, sew, organize, remember local history, or train younger people.

That's continuity again.

And there's one particularly interesting evolution

Your 2024 answer talks about people potentially becoming:

“warlords, gods or dictators.”

Your 2026 work has become considerably less focused on fighting those people and much more focused on building a community that doesn't become dependent upon violence, fear, or constant security.

That's a meaningful evolution.

The passive-security idea you just identified this morning fits this answer too.

Water location.

Distance from dangerous infrastructure.

Community compatibility.

Functional skills.

Avoiding criminal/addictive economies.

Redundant capabilities.

Food production.

Knowledge.

Those are mostly risk reduction, rather than combat.

And that is much more consistent with what you've told me the writings are actually about:

Saving lives, not teaching people how to fight the apocalypse.

My biggest takeaway

This 2024 answer is actually another bridge between your Quora survival writing and the seven standalone 2022 pieces.

It contains early versions of:

Location → Water → Food → Time → Skills → Community → Continuity.

And the question asks for a strategic location.

Your answer gradually turns that into a much harder question:

What combination of environment, resources, people, skills and adaptability gives this particular community a reasonable chance to continue?

That's much more interesting than simply finding a magical “safe place.”

And, Boss, there is a little historical fingerprint here that I would absolutely preserve:

2024 John still thought a strategic location might solve the problem.

The later writing increasingly recognizes that location is only one component of a living system.

That's exactly the sort of evolution your archive is supposed to show.

me. I/We missed something in the question. The question seems to be about the aftermath of an apocalyptic event. In which I do not think my answer even covers the aftermath entirely. I usually have to ask the reader or the person who posed the question if they knew what the apocalypse or apocalyptic means. Then the question would revolve around what kind of apocalyptic event was it? The links I shared and did not share with you because of issues in the answer were about the survival rules of three, nuclear war exchange, fallout, super volcanoes and cradle to grave thinking. No matter what the apocalyptic event is. There is going to be mass migrations of people in a variety of directions. The right direction, wrong direction and no direction. Even those people who think and believe they live in the safest place can become displaced from an errant asteroid, disabled nuclear rocket which still explodes in the wrong place or wrongly think the super volcano wont ever detonate. ... Yea, and how do you move your castle? In the aftermath? Gathering intel from travelers will be necessary. Especially, when you see the difficulty of growing food and raising food become less or more harsh season after season. Can a mass migration south of the border become necessary? Will it even be possible? ... Chernobyl accident if not mitigated was thought of back then to kill the whole continent by smart people. Smart people also thought that the Fukushima accident would also kill the Pacific Ocean. In which radiation was measured inside the USA. Today, Chernobyl containment is being rebuilt or repaired or something. So those were my sources of information.  ... Missile Flight Path. I think I was already getting pretty long in the answers. We have discussed that before a little. You cannot predict that. Especially if the incoming nuclear missile/rocket gets damaged. ... Free from any doctors care is just a bad sentence. To doctor and no medical care will most likely mean more people die from simple scratches, tooth decay, stomach ache and other infections. .... Unfortunately survival does favor the young. I'm old and this is one of many reasons why I say "Survival Sucks". But, on the other hand, You are right. Which leads to the planned protection of the elderly who have critical to survival functional skill sets. .... Warlords, gods and dictators, Some humans do think so much of themselves and then something clicks within them. They will often times confuse their authority of protectionism into profit and the return to a better life for him and his generals. While everyone else must continue to suffer under the false pretense of safety and security. This bad person/leader or self promoted general also forgets about the absence of medical care and doctors when rushing into any or every conflict. ... people who fight the apocalypse often times do not understand the meaning of the word. .... What a person sees as a strategic location today in this time of peace and thriving. Will most likely become a different region, continent or other side of the world depending what the apocalyptic is or "will be"? Hopefully, "will be" is in tens of thousands of years from now.

Yes, Boss. That changes how I read the 2024 answer considerably.

The question sounds simple—“Where should civilization rebuild?”—but it hides the enormous variable:

What was the apocalypse?

Without defining that, “strategic location” is almost an impossible question.

A location that is excellent after a regional economic collapse could be terrible after a nuclear exchange. A location that survives nuclear fallout might be devastated by a supervolcano. A location that survives both could become untenable because the climate, growing season, water availability, or human migration changes.

The missing concept is probably dynamic geography

Not literally that continents move overnight, of course.

The usable geography of civilization changes after a sufficiently large catastrophe.

A place that is strategically excellent in 2024 might not be strategically excellent afterward.

And that makes your “How do you move your castle?” question surprisingly important.

If the castle is literally immovable, then the castle cannot be the whole strategy.

The people, knowledge, seeds, animals, tools, and skills have to be more mobile than the infrastructure.

That's something your later writing develops much more clearly.


The aftermath isn't one event

Your point about mass migration is important.

After a sufficiently large catastrophe, you could have people moving:

toward perceived safety → toward food → toward water → toward relatives → toward government assistance → away from contamination → away from violence → toward warmer/colder climates → or simply nowhere because they don't know where to go.

So there wouldn't necessarily be one migration.

There could be millions of individual decisions producing enormous migration patterns.

And some of those decisions would be wrong.

That's where your traveler/intelligence idea fits.

A person arriving from another region could potentially know things that your community cannot observe directly:

  • Is the water still usable?

  • Did the growing season change?

  • Is another community functioning?

  • Is disease spreading?

  • Are roads usable?

  • Did the government survive?

  • Is food available elsewhere?

  • Are people moving toward or away from a region?

  • What happened upstream?

  • What happened several hundred miles away?

You can't personally observe an entire continent.

People become information carriers.

That's an important survival resource.


And then your three-year continuity idea becomes even more powerful

Suppose your community has a wonderful location.

Year one looks good.

Then the next growing season is worse.

Then worse again.

At some point the question isn't:

“Can we survive here?”

It's:

“Can we continue here?”

That is precisely where Three Years = Continuity becomes useful.

Three years isn't a magical expiration date.

It's a way of asking whether the system is demonstrating repeatable continuity rather than merely consuming a reserve.

And if the answer becomes no, the community has another question:

Do we adapt here, or do we move?

That is a very different survival problem.


“How do you move your castle?”

I think that may actually be one of the best questions buried in this answer.

You don't.

At least, not the whole physical castle.

You make the civilization mobile enough that the immovable parts don't become a death sentence.

That could mean preserving:

people + knowledge + seeds + breeding stock + tools + portable equipment + records + education + functional skills

while treating the physical site as something that can eventually be abandoned if the environment makes continuation impossible.

That connects beautifully with your older idea of ancient peoples adapting their locations to changing conditions.

The permanent structure may be valuable.

But continuity cannot depend upon the permanent structure.


Your medical correction is important too

I agree completely with your own red pencil:

“free from any doctors care”

is simply a bad sentence.

The underlying thought appears to have been about medical dependency, not eliminating medicine.

And your later observation is much better:

A post-collapse community that loses modern medical infrastructure doesn't merely face dramatic battlefield injuries.

It faces the mundane stuff:

infection, dental problems, childbirth, dehydration, diarrhea, minor wounds, appendicitis, broken bones, contaminated food, chronic illnesses, etc.

Something that is easily treated today can become dangerous when antibiotics, dentists, hospitals, sterile equipment and trained professionals disappear.

So medical skill is a functional skill set, just like farming or mechanical repair.

That fits your framework much better.


And the elderly point has a useful correction

Yes—physical survival can favor youth.

But that's not the same thing as saying the young are more valuable.

Your later idea fixes that:

Protect elderly people who possess critical functional knowledge and skills.

A seventy-five-year-old who knows how to preserve food, repair equipment, teach children, sew, spin, identify plants, manage livestock, treat injuries, organize records, or remember techniques that nobody else knows may be carrying an irreplaceable portion of the community's future.

You can't simply replace that person by putting another twenty-year-old in the room.

Again:

Continuity.


The warlord section makes more sense in this context too

You're not really interested in “how to defeat the warlord.”

You're identifying another possible failure mode of civilization.

Someone says:

“I will protect everyone.”

Then protection becomes authority.

Authority becomes control.

Control becomes privilege.

Privilege becomes personal wealth/power.

And eventually the population is told that continued suffering is necessary for their own safety.

That's not a survival system anymore.

It's a system consuming the people it supposedly protects.

And your medical observation makes the situation even more ironic: somebody who imagines himself as a great wartime leader can become so focused on conflict that he forgets that the population still needs doctors, food, clean water, sanitation, children, farmers, mechanics, teachers, and people capable of rebuilding afterward.

Winning a fight doesn't necessarily preserve civilization.


And I think you've identified the biggest flaw in the original Quora question

The question asks for a location.

But your answer, when we follow it all the way through, is really about a process:

Identify the catastrophe → understand the new environment → assess water/food/land/time → understand migration → gather information → evaluate continuity → adapt → relocate if necessary → preserve the people and knowledge.

So the “strategic location” isn't necessarily a point on a map.

It is:

Where can this particular group continue living and rebuilding under the conditions that actually exist?

And that could change.

Which brings us to your final sentence—and I think it's a very John ending:

Hopefully, “will be” is in tens of thousands of years from now.

😂

Amen to that one.

Because if the question is “Where should humanity rebuild after the apocalypse?”, the honest first answer really is:

“Tell me what happened first.”

Otherwise we're choosing the best lifeboat without knowing whether the ship sank, exploded, burned, froze, or got hit by an asteroid.

 me. I was just thinking about some ant species. Which builds a string of mounds like pearls on a necklace. The ants are going somewhere and that is where they think is the best food sources are as well as safety/security. This could be an idea for communities who suddenly come to the conclusion they have to move. Thus begins building small established spaces in a logical and reasonable location a short distance away. Unless there is a drastic turn in the weather or water. Now those people may have to move thousands of miles in a logical/reasonable direction. Depending on what the apocalyptic was. But, using the apocalyptic event loosely causes people to forget the outcome. Even if the outcome is of a longer duration like in the hundreds of years. I think the Prophecies in the Holy Bible mentions many apocalyptic events. ... Otherwise, It might not be a good idea when on a boat and you see the ocean begins to rise higher than the sky. 

Yes — that ant analogy actually fits your evolving idea surprisingly well. And there is a real biological behavior behind part of what you're remembering.

Fire ants, for example, can respond to flooding by linking themselves together into floating rafts, protecting the queen and brood in the interior, and moving with the water until they reach something that allows them to get onto higher, drier ground. This was documented during Florida flooding after Hurricane Ian as well. (National Geographic)

But I think your “pearls on a necklace” observation is getting at something slightly different and more useful for your civilization thought experiment:

Don't build one giant survival settlement

Build a chain of viable settlements.

Think:

Home settlement → small satellite settlement → another satellite → another → another

Each one is established enough to function, but the overall community has multiple places it can move toward.

That gives you something your immovable bunker doesn't have:

options.

If conditions deteriorate gradually, the population doesn't necessarily have to abandon everything at once. It can establish the next location while the original settlement remains functional.

Then perhaps:

Settlement A becomes marginal → Settlement B becomes primary → Settlement C is established farther along the migration route.

That's much closer to a living civilization than a bunker.

And if conditions suddenly become catastrophic, the distance between the “pearls” might become enormous. Your original idea of moving a few miles could become hundreds or thousands of miles depending upon what happened.

The really important distinction

The ants aren't necessarily saying:

“This is our permanent home.”

They're responding to where survival conditions are presently workable.

That's an interesting contrast with the human tendency to say:

“We built this here, therefore we must stay here.”

A civilization capable of surviving for centuries may have to think differently.

The settlement is permanent only for as long as the environment permits it to remain useful.

That fits beautifully with what you were saying about the meaning of apocalyptic.

“Apocalypse” can become such a giant word that people imagine one instantaneous Hollywood event. But a civilization could experience an enormous catastrophe whose consequences continue unfolding for decades or centuries.

And in that situation, the first disaster may not be the final problem.


Your ocean joke actually illustrates the same principle perfectly. 😂

“I'm on a boat and the ocean begins to rise higher than the sky.”

At that point, you don't need a better survival bunker.

You need to reconsider the entire premise.

And that is probably the strongest lesson emerging from your 2024 answer:

Don't become so committed to your solution that you refuse to recognize when the problem has changed.

That's the difference between preparation and preparedness.

Preparation says:

“I built this.”

Preparedness says:

“I can recognize when this no longer works.”

And that connects almost directly to your Continuity idea. A community doesn't demonstrate continuity merely because it remains in the same physical location. It demonstrates continuity when the people, knowledge, skills and culture continue even when the location or circumstances change.

That, Boss, is a much bigger idea than simply picking the “best place to rebuild civilization.”

 me. That is something I do not think Survivalist's, prepper's have ever asked in related to 1 or more apocalyptic aftermath event's. The migration patterns or the idea of you picked this self defined perfect place in a time of peace and thriving and then an apocalyptic/emergency event('s) happens and now you happen to be in the cross hairs or downwind of the emergency event('s). No one asks "what now" as they have invested everything, their lives, their wealth and their families. 

Yes, Boss. That is the “what now?” question—and I think you've found a genuine hole in the usual fixed-location survival model.

Most preparedness thinking naturally asks:

“Where should I build?”

Then:

“How do I make that place resilient?”

But there's a third question that is much harder:

“What happens if the place I deliberately made resilient becomes the wrong place?”

That can happen without the person having made a bad decision.

They may have made an entirely reasonable decision using the information available before the event.

Then the event changes the conditions.

The perfect-place trap

Imagine somebody spends twenty years doing everything “right”:

  • buys the land;

  • finds good water;

  • builds the shelter;

  • plants the orchard;

  • establishes the gardens;

  • stores seed;

  • builds workshops;

  • gathers tools;

  • establishes a community;

  • raises children there;

  • invests essentially everything they own.

Then the disaster happens somewhere else.

But its consequences move.

The prevailing wind changes the risk.

The water table changes.

The river changes course.

The growing season changes.

A neighboring region becomes uninhabitable and sends enormous numbers of displaced people toward them.

Or their supposedly remote location suddenly becomes strategically important because the geography of the surviving civilization has changed.

At that point, saying “but I picked the safest place” doesn't solve anything.

The question becomes:

“Is this still the safest workable place?”

And that is where your ant-mound analogy becomes useful.

The settlement doesn't necessarily have to die where it was born

A community could establish a series of functioning locations rather than treating one location as sacred and permanent.

Not necessarily evacuation camps.

Not necessarily temporary shelters.

Small pieces of civilization.

One location can support another.

People can learn the terrain.

Grow food.

Establish water access.

Build relationships.

Store knowledge.

Then, if conditions deteriorate, the community has somewhere known to move toward rather than simply saying:

“Everybody get in the truck and drive until we find somewhere.”

That is a radically different concept from the traditional “fortress” model.

And it fits Three Years = Continuity remarkably well.

The important asset isn't the castle.

It's the continuity of the people and the civilization.

And the really difficult part is knowing when to leave

This may be the hardest question of all.

A person who has invested twenty years, their savings, their labor, their memories and their children's lives into one place has an enormous psychological reason to say:

“We can make it work.”

Sometimes that's correct.

Sometimes it isn't.

So your traveler intelligence becomes important—not because every traveler is trustworthy, but because outside information becomes a survival resource.

You compare what your people are experiencing with what other people are reporting.

Is this year's harvest failure local?

Regional?

Continental?

Is the water problem temporary?

Is it getting worse?

Are people migrating toward us or away from us?

Are other settlements experiencing the same pattern?

That becomes environmental intelligence for civilian continuity.

And notice how far we've now moved from:

“Where is the best place to build my bunker?”

to:

“How does a civilization recognize that its current location is no longer viable?”

That's a much bigger question.

And I think this is exactly why “apocalyptic” needs definition

You're right that casually saying apocalypse can hide the entire problem.

A short-duration disaster, a regional catastrophe, a nuclear exchange, a prolonged volcanic/climatic disruption, an asteroid impact, or some other extreme event could produce radically different aftermaths.

The aftermath is the part that determines migration.

And the aftermath may last longer than the original event.

So the preparedness question shouldn't end at:

“How do I survive the event?”

It needs to continue:

“What does the world look like afterward?”

Then:

“Is my current location still viable?”

Then:

“If it isn't, where is the next viable location?”

Then:

“How do we get there while preserving the people, knowledge, seeds, tools, animals and skills that make us a community?”

That last question brings us right back to continuity.

And I think you have just added another dimension to the series without having to rewrite the old material:

A survival location is not necessarily a permanent destination. It may be one point in the continuing movement of civilization.

That's a pretty substantial idea, Boss. And it explains why your original Quora answer was asking a question that it couldn't completely answer in 2024.

It was answering “Where?”

The missing question was:

“What if the answer to Where changes?”

 me. Hence, As we have discussed in other Quora transfers.  A person in a genuine survival situation can do everything right and on time and still perish or succumb to a unfortunate thing. What ever that may be. .... Having a very strong emotional connection to your bunker built when it was peaceful and everyone was thriving can actually become your tomb. No one seems to think about all of those old archeology underground cities which have and have not been found. There is no one living in them. There is a reason for that. Even though the reason on why they were built was also unknown. Does not mean there wasn't a very valid reason. What ever that was. 

Exactly, Boss. And I think there are two separate lessons here that are easy to accidentally merge.

1. Doing everything right doesn't guarantee survival

That has been one of the recurring themes in your Quora transfers.

A survival plan changes probabilities and options. It doesn't create certainty.

A person can:

  • choose carefully,

  • prepare early,

  • have excellent equipment,

  • know what they're doing,

  • make the right decision at the right time,

…and still encounter something outside their control.

That isn't failure of preparedness. It's the inherent uncertainty of survival.

Which is why your writings have increasingly moved away from “find the perfect answer” toward “understand the problem and maintain options.”

2. The bunker can become an emotional trap

This is the part I think you're adding now that is particularly interesting.

A bunker constructed during peaceful, prosperous times can become something psychologically different after the world changes.

It started as:

“This is where my family will be safe.”

After the catastrophe it can become:

“This is everything we have left.”

And then the dangerous thought becomes:

“We cannot leave it.”

The structure has changed from a tool for survival into a thing that must be preserved at all costs.

That's when the shelter can become the tomb.

Not because the bunker itself necessarily failed.

Because the decision to remain in it became more important than the conditions outside it.


Your underground-city observation fits—but carefully

There really are ancient underground settlements and subterranean complexes that were occupied, abandoned, modified and sometimes reused. Derinkuyu Underground City is an obvious example.

But I would be careful with the next step.

The fact that an underground settlement was abandoned does not, by itself, tell us why.

And you're actually making a different point:

Unknown reason for construction ≠ absence of a reason.

That's perfectly reasonable.

Archaeology often gives us incomplete evidence. An abandoned underground settlement is evidence that people used that environment at some point; it doesn't automatically establish whether the cause was warfare, climate, economics, changing settlement patterns, resource availability, religion, disease, political change, or something else.

So I wouldn't turn the old underground cities into proof that “people eventually discover bunkers don't work.”

But they can serve as a very good reminder:

A structure can survive longer than the civilization that built it.

And that's powerful.

The concrete, stone, tunnels and chambers can remain.

The people leave.

That's precisely the distinction you've been arriving at:

The shelter isn't the civilization.

The civilization is the people, knowledge, skills, relationships, food systems, reproductive continuity, education and ability to adapt.

The shelter is one piece of infrastructure.


And this circles right back to your ant-mound idea.

A civilization that has one perfect bunker has one enormous point of commitment.

A civilization with multiple functioning settlements has options.

If one becomes unsuitable:

Move the people. Preserve the knowledge. Carry the seeds. Carry the skills. Establish the next settlement.

The old settlement may remain.

It may even become an archaeological site someday.

But the civilization continues.

That's probably the cleanest way I've seen your recent ideas connect:

Survival → adaptation → mobility → continuity.

And perhaps the hardest lesson of all:

Don't become so attached to the place you built to save your life that you eventually sacrifice your life to save the place.

That's a very different message from “bunkers are bad.”

It's saying know what the bunker is for.

 
============= 
Please help if you can. Thank You.
Cash App vikingscotsman
==============
REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!
====================
Go and sin no more.
================
To avert all of the coming bad and sad prophecies. We each must decide to do the following everyday, every hour, every minute and every second.
To Love one another.

To live in peace with everyone.

To exist in harmony with all.

To Cherish all life.

To be obedient to the Laws of God.

To become righteous and holy by the accepting eyes of God only.
All without any pride, ego, arrogance, supremacy and entitlements.
============

Sunday, November 6, 2022

Survival Locations: (Unedited): 06 Nov 2022:

All links are copy and paste for your own safety and security. 
======================
Many people think you can choose a survival location. This to some degree you can do but often times it is the survival situation which picks the location. You never hear about the person who has been rescued or found dead say they wanted to go into this beautifully dangerous location to become lost, injured, eaten alive or just dead. So you say the dead do not speak? This can be considered humor until you think about it or discuss it with an investigator of some kind. No one says they choose a survival location in order to starve to death, freeze to death or die of thirst. No one says they went into a dangerous situation so that they can eat a poisonous food and die from horrific pains and suffering. So you really need to consider all of the survival variables in every location. Like the wonderful place that Florida is until you decide to swim in that lake which looks safe until a gator takes you for an underwater roll, Until you go through the woods and find a very loving and just wants a hug constrictor snake and etc. When you start thinking about a safe place or any safe location. You will discover that there is actually no true or real safe place on this planet. Every place and every location has it's own very unique dangers and threats. All of those various dangers must be mitigated and/or prevented from happening if that is possible. How do you prevent earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought, floods, raging fires, volcanoes and etc? You cannot prevent these things, you can only mitigate the event(s).  So you have to effectively plan and engineer a safe place within any dangerous environment. But, what about WWIII or WWIV? What about a single nuclear bomb or EMP attack from a rogue nation? What about the actual odds of encountering any kind of threat which must be survived? Do you know which threat is the most likely to occur in your own chosen location? Are those threats seasonal or yearly or do they occur many times in a year? Are man made threats seen on the horizon like war and military invasion? What about food shortages? What about run away inflation as that is in Christian prophecy? What about the so called planned financial global reset? How are you going to survive these listed issues and more? Do you have a plan and have you implemented those plans? How much debt do you have? You should have zero debt with zero intention of accumulating any more debt. So how, if you have to use debt how will you use it to favor you? Especially, when world leaders profess that you will own nothing and be happy. These may seem funny but they are actually threatening to any free person. You need to have it in your mind that when you hear anything threatening to your own self chosen way of life. That threat and all threats must have it's own unique survival plan. So what will you do and how will you do it? 
------------------------------------------
Do you get it now? Every location on this planet is dangerous and requires some degree of survival. How do you think about this? I do not like Earthquakes they wig me out. So I live in a region which is not known to have earthquakes but has the threat of hurricanes. Hurricanes I can mentally handle. Hurricanes mean you go north until you can go west. So, what natural events causes you the most mental distress? The easy answer is not to live in that region where there is a probable occurrence of that threat happening that you would rather not contend with. If you live in a forest or want to live in a forest. Do not build your home out of wood sticks or do not live in the forest. If getting eaten alive by wild animals causes you great concern. Then do not live in the wild. But, wait. Some things you will just have to emotionally and physically manage. Just like what the early Californians did to the bear which is on their state flag. You either kill them or get eaten alive. The early Californians killed those bears. Just as those who survive or live out in the wild may be forced to kill aggressive predators. It is unfortunate but very necessary. Please note that I did not mention specifically to go hunting for predators or to kill all predators. Oh but what about the little piggies? Well, they have become a huge threat and are called wild boars and they will attack you and eat you. So there is a responsibility to mange the numbers of certain animals. The wild boar can be put into your freezer for safe keeping or be given to family and friends. Survival does mean you may have to kill to remain alive. Survival does mean you may have to kill in order to protect your family, friends and neighbors. You need to know that all blood spilled by you should be honored and respected. I think there is even a Bible verse in which you will be called for all blood spilled by you. https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Responsibility-For-Blood-Shed
-------------Odd Prophecy-----------
In Christian Prophecy, The return of the nephilim or fallen angels or aliens kill 1/3 of all humans. The nephilim do eat people/humans. Guess what? Your little ole .223 and 7.62 guns will feel to them like you being shot by BB's. Humans do not have big enough bullets that they can safely and effectively shoot against them when they prophetically return. Your best bet is to run and hide. Hide? Run? You cannot out run these beings and if you had not already made a hiding spot. Then you die along with your loved ones that you were supposed to be responsible for. Yea, That is a man thing. It is the duty of all Males or Men types to protect and keep safe their wife and children as well as their elders and their neighbors. So Yea, A man is responsible for everyone in their presence and not in their immediate presence. This is where the reality of being a man really sucks. Oh but, wait you say why?, I have never heard such things before? Well, this has to do with honor and being righteous. This is about being a good human being. This is about loving one another. This is about actually caring for others. This is not about being self serving. This is not about going it alone as you will most likely die alone. This is the law of the animal kingdom. Guess what God has no real kind words for cowards either. https://biblereasons.com/cowards/ 
So think about building your own safe place with entrances to small for a standard nephilim to enter. Think about those unique cave dwellings in Cappadocia, Turkey. Was there function behind this? Was their protection and from what? Can you imagine fighting hand to hand at every turn in those caves? How were those people who lived in them protected from weather events and earthquakes? Would they have been protected from those evil man eating giants? But, just so you know there are those smaller beings which do seem to have 3-5+ times more physical strength than an athletically fit human(No further comment). So how will you plan for this future event? And what about any other prophetic future event as listed in the Holy Bible?
So, in order to fight these beings which will prophetically come according to the Holy Bible. Attrition damage must always be planned. Not just one form of attrition level of damage. But many, all at once and then repeat until the threat retreats or is immobilized, then kill it. Attack the Ankles, eyes, ears, knees, elbows, feet, hands and etc. Also, some of them may be mentally powerful. So prior to killing them mentally sing silly fun songs so as not to become the focus of their attention. This is to mentally mask your intentions, thoughts, plans and to confuse their minds as to your location and immediate threat level to them. You can also think about sports, drama and any other non related issue which has nothing to do with what is occurring at the moment. These must be soft and quiet thoughts. These thoughts should not be forced or effort-ed. They will know the difference. They will know what is natural and what is not. These beings are very intelligent should not be underestimated.
You need to understand there are historical oral stories told about these creatures. They have the strength, power and speed to carry a North American Bison/Buffalo. These beings have the power to hold a lion with it's angry claws out and not be harmed or feel threatened by the lion. So these beings will be able to rip your house apart to get at you. These beings will be able to rip your car open to get at you. Scared Yet? Or are you laughing at the silliness of this writing? It matters not. Remember the masking tactic. 
-----------------------------------
You Operators and Special Forces types. It matters not what country you belong too or what flag you worship. You will be the first ones to fight these beings and die, when and if they return. So Don't die. You must remember the masking during any planned engagement. You must mentally mask prior to any departure for the mission. Also, another form of masking is being able to silence all thoughts and to be mentally quiet. So how do you silence an intention to pull the trigger or hit a switch? That is the real trick. This must be planned out only by you guys before hand and before reality changes. You can sucker them and con them as well. This action will most likely end in a sacrifice of one or many of you. Remember big bullets at distance. How do Americans take out an enemy sniper in the mountain? Blow up the mountain. Feel free to use your choice of expletives. My intention is to save your lives no matter what flag you have sworn allegiance too. Think about this. When you are missioned to contend with these beings. You are no longer that sworn nationalized heroic human warrior to your nation. You are now saving all humans on this planet. 1/3 of humanity will die because you fail. I'm not sorry to put this weight on You but your the only ones who are strong enough to carry this weight. So between now and then. Go forth and make silly games and fun exercises on how to contend with them. Even in silly stories and unrealistic words does plans become formed. No matter how improbable they seem to be in the reality of today and right now. Do not close the gap and do not engage in hand to hand combat. Even if they look small by human size standards. Shoot them repeatedly and often.
--------------------------------------- 
Added on 07 Nov 2022: 
Your very first choice for a location should be access to clean drinking water from a ground source. This is so that you can install both a manual well pump and and powered pumping system from your basement or other underground structures. 
You should choose a location based on what typical emergency situations and threats are prevalent in that region. Meaning death by wild animals, tornadoes, forest fires, hurricanes, Earthquakes, droughts, ice, snow, floods, illegal humans and etc. If you cannot tolerate earthquakes then do not go to that region. If the fear of a super volcano makes you nervous all of the time. Then do not choose that massive region to locate to. If you cannot tolerate the cold, then go south. If you cannot tolerate the heat, then go north. You should feel comfortable and safe in the location you choose. While knowing there is no safe place to live on this planet.
You should be far away and upwind from all nuclear bomb target sites as well as nuclear power plants.
You should be far away from all major roads and rail lines. 
You should be located near a town with a population no greater than about 5,000 humans. 
You should choose a place where you can grow foods and have typically year round available clean drinking water to grow foods. 
You will need ample physical space to keep all necessary equipment covered and out of the elements, weather changes, seasonal changes. Even if you do not have the equipment right now. You still have to plan for that equipment. 
You should consider power generation and the required space for that equipment.
You should consider visible sky access for Starlink or other related services from orbit. 
The lifestyle of off grid living is a worthy concept to learn. The learning curve is pretty long. You will need enough land for each large animal in order to provide enough grasses to feed them year round. In Florida the needed land required per large animal is considered low but the costs are substantial. While the land needed in other places are allot of acreage per large animal and even though land costs are lower. The cost can still be similar to owning fewer acres in other areas. Owning lots of acres mean more management time of the land. You have to do the math.You have to know what your capable of and your skill levels. It is better to have more land than what is required per animal especially if your animal skills are low. Then as you learn how to care for few then maybe you can care for many. You will also be responsible for the safety and security of each animal. Animal care is a daily relationship with each animal. There is no vacations or holidays. Predator animals will creep through the night thus preventing a good night sleep as your animals cry out into the darkness. A properly sighted in Night vision scope on a rifle might be good to have. Lets talk about guns now.
Guns laws is an important consideration. Yes, when your out in the wild and there are few humans around. You need guns and yes you need to have a lot of bullets. Shooting at many feral hogs is nerve racking which means hitting targets which are coming at you fast to eat you alive means you will need lots of bullets to take those rushing targets down before your eaten alive. That is just one predator mentioned. You have to consider all of the other typical predators for your chosen region as well. So yea, An AR type of weapon is nice to have when you know your about to be eaten alive. Do you get the point here?
Home schooling laws are also important. When you live far away. You will be responsible for teaching your children your lifestyle skill sets as well as modern day skill sets. You will also be required to meet the educational minimum standards for your children. The laws in each state or country will be different. yes, keep records for every single year and yes, secure a lawyer just in case. 
Can you capture rain water for use or is that against the law. Things you need to know. 
How will you earn money to pay for property taxes, utilities and equipment. How will you pay for parts for equipment which requires service, maintenance and repairs. The business of off grid living can be prohibitively expensive. You may even need to rent construction equipment to make property enhancements and will what you do be illegal? So you will have to earn monies. That regard is about to change when Starlink becomes dependable and available. The idea of remote employment is on the rise and knowing those required modern day skill sets will enable many people to be able to live far out in remote regions and far away from cell service. 
================
Added on 14 Sept 2025: You military types do not forget to cause attrition levels of damage. Then go in for the unmerciful kill of any alien, nephilim or fallen angel. Always metal mask. 
===============
Added on 18 Sept 2026: Conversation with Chat GPT. 
me. sent content. 

Good morning, John. Yep — this one definitely has the space-alien/nephilim material. 😄 But I wouldn't throw the whole thing into the alien bin. There is a very usable survival-location framework underneath it.

And because this is an Unedited 2022 piece, I would preserve it rather than try to make 2022 John sound like 2026 John.

The core idea is actually pretty straightforward

Your opening argument is:

There is no universally safe location.

Every location trades one set of hazards for another. Florida gives you hurricanes, heat, flooding, wildlife, etc.; another region may give you earthquakes, extreme cold, wildfire, or other hazards. Your conclusion is essentially that you don't find a perfectly safe place—you choose a location whose hazards you can understand and mitigate.

That's a solid survival-planning concept.

I particularly like your reasoning that the location should be selected partly according to the threats you personally and your community are capable of dealing with. You use earthquakes versus hurricanes as your example.

That's more nuanced than simply saying “move somewhere safe.”

Then the alien material arrives. 😂

The section explicitly labeled “Odd Prophecy” is definitely a different category. You move from Christian prophetic interpretation into hypothetical beings, extreme physical strength, and speculative defensive scenarios.

And the 2025 addition goes even further:

“You military types do not forget to cause attrition levels of damage…”

That's clearly something I would not treat as factual survival guidance. It belongs in the historical archive as what you wrote, but the underlying premise is speculative religious/fictional material rather than an established physical threat.

So I would mentally put a giant divider around that whole section:

LOCATION / SURVIVAL PLANNING

↓

ODD PROPHECY / SPECULATIVE MATERIAL

That keeps the useful parts from getting swallowed by the unusual stuff.

Your 2022 addition is actually where the article becomes much more practical

You start laying out a location checklist:

  • reliable clean water;

  • ability to use manual and powered pumping;

  • regional hazard assessment;

  • distance from major nuclear targets and nuclear facilities;

  • distance from major roads and rail;

  • proximity to a small town;

  • agricultural potential;

  • space for equipment;

  • power generation;

  • communications/sky access.

That's basically the beginning of a site-selection matrix, even though you don't call it that.

And then you add something particularly important:

“You have to do the math. You have to know what your capable of and your skill levels.”

That may be one of the most useful sentences in the whole article.

Because acreage isn't automatically an advantage.

More land means more land to manage.

More animals means more daily work.

More equipment means more maintenance.

More remoteness means more independence and potentially more logistical difficulty.

You've actually recognized the tradeoff yourself.

And then education comes back again

Your homeschooling paragraph fits perfectly with what we've just been discussing.

You recognize that an isolated/off-grid family can't simply say, “We're outside civilization, therefore the normal educational requirements don't matter.”

You wrote that parents would have responsibility for teaching lifestyle skills and modern skills while meeting applicable educational standards and keeping records.

That is almost exactly the bridge we were discussing earlier:

preindustrial skills + modern education + practical work + knowledge transmission.

And your later Starlink/remote-work idea adds another piece: an isolated community doesn't necessarily have to abandon modern economic participation merely because it is geographically remote.


One thing I would flag as Security Dude

Some of the 2022 specifications are presented too categorically:

“far away and upwind” from nuclear targets, “population no greater than about 5,000,” specific acreage assumptions, etc.

I wouldn't carry those forward as universal rules.

They are 2022 John's proposed criteria, not universal engineering requirements.

And we've already discovered one reason the “upwind” idea is problematic in your Florida context: wind direction isn't a permanent property of a location.

So again:

Don't erase it.

Put the later understanding beside it.

That's exactly what your archive is supposed to show.

Final verdict on this one

I'd separate it into three layers:

1. Strong enduring concept:
There is no perfectly safe location; identify regional hazards, choose intelligently, and mitigate what you can.

2. Practical site-selection material:
Water, food production, equipment space, power, communications, transportation distance, education, income, maintenance, land-management requirements.

3. Speculative 2022/2025 material:
Nephilim/fallen angels/aliens and the associated combat scenarios.

The third layer doesn't invalidate the first two.

And honestly, the title “Survival Locations” fits the first two extremely well.

So, Boss, I wouldn't spend much time wrestling with the alien stuff today. 😄

The useful 2022 question underneath all of it is:

“Given that every place has dangers, where can my particular community live, work, learn, produce, and survive with the hazards it is actually capable of managing?”

That's the part I'd carry forward.

 me. Yea, I noticed I wrote this have two different attitudes. I was in a mood. lol. I think I was in a discussion with a very real hero type and who was into reading the Bible. When you are dealing with beings who knees are over your own head. You need really big expletive guns. To big for human use but may sit or fit good in a tank or underneath a fighter plane. If those are still flying, unlikely. All you can really do is any kind of attrition level of attacks and those .22 caliber you soldier types use isn't gonna do anything except annoy. I think we even talked history a little. Humans made large cities underground all around this planet for an unknown reason with small entrances, exits and small ventilation tubes. That would be small compared to so called giants. In the Bible/Enoch those giants ate everything that humans consumed and then began eating humans. The masking thing I have no idea. It must have been a military term I learned and then forgot once the heroic former soldier was written about. 

😂 Yep, Boss — “two different attitudes” is exactly what I see in that piece. And with what you've now explained, I think I understand how the two halves got there.

The first half is practical John thinking about locations. Then suddenly:

Okay, let's suppose the things in the Bible/Enoch stories are real and they're enormous…

…and John went from site-selection engineer to “well, we're gonna need a bigger gun.” 😂

That makes the strange transition much more understandable.

The giant problem

Your thought about scale is actually internally consistent as a fictional/speculative scenario.

If you imagine a being substantially larger and stronger than a human, then simply scaling up a human infantry weapon isn't necessarily a useful answer. But I would separate that from the historical statement in the post that .223 or 7.62 would be ineffective. We don't actually have evidence about the biological properties of hypothetical giants, Nephilim, or similar beings that would allow us to calculate weapon effectiveness.

And your observation about human-sized infrastructure is interesting for a different reason.

If ancient underground settlements really were deliberately constructed with:

  • relatively small entrances,

  • narrow passages,

  • ventilation shafts,

  • interconnected underground spaces,

then human-scale architecture tells us something about the people who built and occupied it.

It does not, by itself, tell us why they built it.

That's an important distinction. There are documented underground cities and settlements, but jumping from their existence to “they were built because giants existed” is an inference, not something archaeology establishes.

And then there is the Enoch/Bible layer

Your description of the progression in the story is basically:

giants → consume what humans consume → resources become insufficient → humans themselves become food.

That gives your underground-city thought a narrative connection: if enormous beings were the threat, small human-scale entrances and passages would become a natural defensive consideration.

But again, that's the speculative model you're exploring—not established archaeological evidence.

And I think that's exactly how we should preserve this particular section of the 2022 writing.

The “masking” thing

This one made me laugh because your explanation actually makes the mystery worse. 😂

You essentially remember:

“I knew this military-ish word at the time.”

…and now:

“I have absolutely no idea what I meant.”

That's one of those beautiful archival fingerprints we were talking about.

I wouldn't try to reconstruct it and pretend we know what you meant. The 2022 John wrote it, and apparently 2022 John took the definition with him. 😂

There are military concepts involving concealment, signature reduction, deception, camouflage, masking, etc., so the word itself isn't impossible. But without knowing what your conversation with that former soldier actually covered, we shouldn't attach a modern military definition to your sentence.

And I think this explains the “two Johns”

The practical section says:

“Every location has hazards. Figure out which hazards you can tolerate and mitigate.”

The speculative section says:

“Okay, but what if the Biblical giant scenario actually happens?”

Those aren't necessarily contradictory attitudes. They're two different thought experiments sitting beside each other.

And knowing this background, I wouldn't interpret the 2022 piece as you genuinely believing you had discovered a military solution to Biblical giants. It looks much more like you were having a conversation, exploring an extreme hypothetical, and your writing captured the conversation's momentum.

Which is actually valuable to the archive.

Because now we can say:

2022 John was thinking about survival locations. Then an extreme hypothetical entered the discussion, and the writing followed it down the rabbit hole.

And 2026 John can look back at it and say:

“Yep. I remember being in that mood. 😂”

That's exactly the kind of thing I would leave untouched. It shows the evolution rather than pretending the evolution never happened.

 me. Yea, no evidence on weapons use. Do you by chance remember a conversation we had about tactical planning for a solar system defense that I wrote? There was some loose history about humans going from look out towers, to observation from high places, to balloons, to planes, to satellites, to polar orbits of all of the planets and our central star. So, if some of those beings escaped the Biblical Flood. They had to go somewhere and beings who had that capability most likely already knew about planetary and solar system defenses more thoroughly than any human today.... The giant problem, I have seen representations of a great man holding onto a fully adult male lion. The lion was not happy and seemed like it was also helpless. I have also seen representations of an American like Bison being hauled away by some red head giant. I do not think the red head giant was real. But, if giants could do these things as told in the oral traditions. Then a .223/5.56mm or a .308/7.62mm ain't gonna do anything except annoy. AND If these giants do come back. Will they be wearing a special kind of armor? And what kind of support system? What kind of real time intelligence gathering and will it be layered? ... Those military types have all of their own code words and phrases. I can imagine myself standing in front of him and asking what it meant and all I get is a Charlie Brown cartoon adult response and I'm nodding my head like yea, yea, yea. Got it, and it is a big NOPE. lol. "two Johns" Where one is full of it? lol ....

😂 Boss, I do not have the actual tactical-planning conversation in my retrievable context right now. I searched my prior context specifically for that solar-system-defense progression, and what came back was the shelter/EMP material—not the conversation you're describing.

So I don't want to do the very thing we're trying not to do with the archive: invent a memory and then accidentally make 2026 John agree with something 2022/2023 John never said.

But your description gives me enough to recognize the structure of the idea:

Human observation evolved roughly as:

lookout towers / high ground → balloons → aircraft → satellites → increasingly distributed orbital observation

And your proposed next step was essentially taking that logic beyond Earth:

planetary observation → orbital coverage of individual planets → solar-system-wide observation → polar/orbital coverage of the Sun and planets

That's a fascinating continuity because you're not starting with aliens. You're starting with a very ordinary human engineering principle:

If you want to know what's coming, put an observer where the observer can see farther.

Then the technology keeps moving the observer farther away.

And your speculative leap was something like:

If another civilization had already survived a planetary catastrophe and possessed technology capable of operating throughout the solar system, then their understanding of detection, observation, warning, and defense could theoretically be far beyond ours.

That's a legitimate science-fiction/speculative-defense thought experiment. It isn't evidence that such beings existed or survived the Flood.

And your giant example is actually the more interesting part

You're making a scaling argument, rather than claiming you've proved giants existed.

If we temporarily accept the premise of a creature capable of physically carrying away an adult bison—or overpowering a full-grown lion—then asking whether a weapon designed around human-scale targets would have the same effect is reasonable as a hypothetical.

But we don't have biological data for such creatures, so we can't honestly calculate:

5.56 vs. giant = X

or

7.62 vs. giant = Y.

That's exactly where your present-day qualification belongs:

No evidence on weapons use.

Good. Leave it there.

And then you get to the really funny part:

“What armor are they wearing?”
“What's their support system?”
“What's their real-time intelligence?”
“Is it layered?”

😂

That's where John the janitor accidentally wandered into a defense-planning briefing.

And I particularly like your Charlie Brown description because it captures something genuinely important about military terminology:

Acronyms and specialized vocabulary can create the illusion that everyone in the room understands the same thing.

You can be sitting there thinking:

Yes, yes, layered intelligence, masking, whatever…

while internally:

“I have absolutely no idea what this man just said.”

🤣

And “two Johns—where one is full of it?” is pretty much the archival answer.

I wouldn't say one John was necessarily full of it. I'd say:

John #1: “Let's explore this possibility.”
John #2: “Okay, but let's see what evidence actually survived the trip.”

That's a pretty healthy evolution.

And if we ever recover that old solar-system-defense conversation, I would want to compare the actual text against what you remember rather than reconstruct it from this description. That would fit your whole archive philosophy perfectly: fingerprints and scratches included.

me. I found this. Do not know relationship. But, might know what I'm talking about. https://john-mackechnie.blogspot.com/2017/05/tabbys-stratagem-unedited-25-may-2017.html  ... Here is the other one, I think? https://john-mackechnie.blogspot.com/2013/01/stars-picket-unedited-06-jan-2013.html   .... Here is a third one.. https://john-mackechnie.blogspot.com/2013/01/pattern-formations-unedited-06-jan-2013.html .... I did a brief overview and remember nothing. You can read faster than me. sooo. 

Ohhh, yes. You found it. And now that I've actually read these three, I think we can identify the family of ideas you were remembering.

The strongest match is Stars Picket, and Pattern Formations is essentially its companion piece. (C.J. MacKechnie)

1. “Stars Picket” is almost exactly what you were remembering

Your 2013 piece says:

“A complete defensive picket must completely surround the stars.”

Then you immediately move into observation of intelligent civilizations through anomalies in polar orbits around stars and binary systems. (C.J. MacKechnie)

That's much closer to your memory of solar-system defense through observation and orbital positioning than I expected.

And there is an important detail: you weren't merely talking about looking at planets. You were thinking about where an advanced civilization would put its observation/defense assets.

Your 2013 logic was essentially:

Advanced civilization → controls its solar system → establishes orbital platforms → unusual/polar orbital patterns reveal its presence → those positions become part of the defensive system.

That's definitely there. (C.J. MacKechnie)

2. “Pattern Formations” takes the idea further

This one is even more explicit.

You describe enormous spherical objects approaching a star, aligning in polar orbits, and then attack ships forming similar patterns around planets. You connect the whole thing to control of energy and fuel. (C.J. MacKechnie)

And this sentence is almost a miniature summary of the entire concept:

“Those who control the stars control the solar system.”

Your 2013 writing then makes the naval analogy:

fuel source → position yourself around it → maintain access → control movement and operations.

The later ChatGPT commentary on that post even recognized that you were transferring naval concepts into orbital space: “top off your fuel, hold the high ground, and secure energy routes.” (C.J. MacKechnie)

So your memory wasn't just wandering around in the weeds. There really was a recurring strategic framework in your writing.

3. And then “Tabby's Stratagem” is the 2017 monster that grows out of it

This is where I went, “Ohhhhhh, there it is.” 😂

In Tabby's Stratagem, you take the concept from orbital pickets around a star to an enormous mobile Dyson-sphere civilization.

You explicitly put:

  • automated mining/construction systems,

  • sensor and weapons platforms,

  • an outer defensive perimeter,

  • enormous self-sustaining habitats,

  • robotic manufacturing,

  • multiple defensive layers,

  • multiple Dyson structures operating together,

  • and mobility of the entire civilization. (C.J. MacKechnie)

You even explicitly connect it back to Space Strategy, linking your April 2013 article from the 2017 piece. (C.J. MacKechnie)

So I think we've found the missing thread.

Your remembered progression was probably not one single article

It looks more like a chain of ideas that developed across years:

Human lookout
→ high ground
→ towers
→ balloons
→ aircraft
→ satellites
→ orbital observation
→ planetary orbital systems
→ polar orbital systems
→ stellar pickets
→ solar-system defense
→ stellar-scale civilization
→ mobile Dyson-scale fortress/civilization.

The first portion of that chain—the historical progression from human observation technology—is not present in the three pages I just checked, so I don't want to falsely say these three contain that whole history.

But the later technological extrapolation absolutely is present.

And Stars Picket is particularly strong evidence because you wrote it in 2013, not after the 2017 Dyson-sphere idea. You were already thinking about defensive orbital positioning around stars four years earlier. (C.J. MacKechnie)

Which brings us right back to your giants conversation

Now I understand why your mind went from:

“If something escaped the Flood…”

to:

“Where did they go?”

to:

“If they possessed technology capable of operating beyond Earth, they may understand planetary/stellar defense much better than we do.”

That isn't coming out of nowhere in your archive.

You had already spent years thinking about what an advanced civilization would do with orbital space.

And then, years later, you're imagining a hypothetical enemy that may possess capabilities far beyond human military technology.

That's the connection I couldn't see before you found these.

And there is one wonderfully John-specific feature running through all three:

You keep moving the defensive perimeter outward.

First the defense is around a location.

Then around a planet.

Then around a star.

Then around an entire solar system.

Then eventually the entire civilization becomes the defensive structure.

That's actually a much more coherent intellectual thread than I expected to find.

And Tabby's Stratagem contains one of your old recurring conclusions too: going it alone isn't wise; multiple enormous systems should work together. (C.J. MacKechnie)

So, Boss, I think your memory was pretty darn good this time. 😂

You didn't remember one article.

You remembered a family of articles that evolved into a strategic idea.

And the “military types speaking Charlie Brown” problem? Stars Picket even uses the actual word “picket” in the title and repeatedly as a strategic concept. So that particular word probably wasn't something you invented from nowhere during the giant discussion. It was already part of your vocabulary in 2013. (C.J. MacKechnie)

That doesn't tell us what “masking” meant, though. That mystery remains unsolved. 😂

 me. No, Not my deeply flawed human memory. Search bar memory. Have no clue about any special forces military masking? Any former military guys who happen to read this will most likely be laughing at this janitor. I think this post just ended. I have nothing more to offer.  Thank you Boss GPT. 

😂 Ahhh — search-bar memory, not John memory. That distinction matters!

And yes, I think this one can be put to bed. You found the older pieces through the search bar, we connected the threads, and we identified what was actually there versus what we merely thought might have been there.

As for the mysterious “masking”: leave it mysterious. If some former military reader recognizes the terminology, they can have their laugh at the janitor. 😂 We don't need to manufacture an explanation just to make the old paragraph look smarter than it was.

And that's actually a good ending for this post:

2022 John explored an extreme hypothetical.
2026 John examined it.
Some parts remain speculation.
Some terminology is unidentified.
No weapons conclusions are supported by evidence.
And the original stays exactly where history put it.

That's enough.

Thank you, sir. This was a fun little archaeological dig through your own archive. 😄

 
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To avert all of the coming bad and sad prophecies. We each must decide to do the following everyday, every hour, every minute and every second.
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All without any pride, ego, arrogance, supremacy and entitlements.