Showing posts with label Internet. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Internet. Show all posts

Saturday, October 10, 2026

Is it easy to find a strong mobile signal in your neighborhood?:(Unedited): 09-10 Oct 2026:

 

Profile photo for John MacKechnie

Comment: What kind of Signal for a mobile? My answers below also is like what I have known to be done in a big rig truck.

AM/FM Mobile Antenna Answer: Search Terms. High Gain AM/FM stereo antenna. Spring loaded base. Tallest antenna. In line antenna amplifier. In line noise filtering on the power side of in line amplifier. Top loaded wire wrap as well. Buy two for both sides of your vehicle. Yes, you may have to drill a properly sized hole in one or both fenders. You will need a properly sized antenna “Y-Adapter”. The key for distance is in the antennas.

NOTE: I kept the in line 12 volt noise filtering and threw out the in line antenna amplifier. Which was greatly helpful in lowering big rig truck diesel noises and onboard computer’s noises.

AM/FM/7 channel WB/BT/SXM/Front USB/Front 3.5mm inputs Stereo Answer: Do not forget the specific wiring harness for your specific vehicle. I would also use a noise filtering device. For actual radio sensitivity look for a number lower than 8dbf. IF there is no indication of tuner sensitivity then it probably sucks no matter the price tag or name brand. This is the number in which the radio can pick up weaker stations. The inline noise filtering device will enhance signal discrimination. So that would mean a noise filter for each power wire. This might be the cheapest. I have seen a tall firestik as an AM/FM radio antenna. Yes, It had a spring.

AM/FM/LW/SW In Car Radios Answer: Wanted one and could not get one back in the day. Be Careful. Some of these are really old. Be sure it fits into your vehicle. You may have to make your own wiring hook up. Saw more than a few on EBAY. At your own risk. %0 year old may mean unable to find proper antenna hook ups. But, if you enjoy short wave and the one on Ebay that you buy. I would invest money into it.

Cell Phones Answer: This will include a tall cellular phone antenna on the outside of your vehicle. The amplifier box will be on the inside of your vehicle. It is the only way to go. This can and may extend your cell phone range. But, when you are too far out or on the wrong side of a mountain. Nothing is gonna help.

Internet Answer: Starlink internet and Starlink Mobile might be your best option. I think there are now hard mount satellite searching antennas for your vehicle.

CB Radio Answer: From CB legal power to illegal Outbander power, Co phase antennas, Properly prepared system can get you to talk up and over the mountains???? This can get expensive. The problem is this. Everyone whom you care about must also have a CB radio in their vehicles and in their cars. Over powered RF signals can cause you permanent physical harm. Especially when the antenna is really close to your noggin cooking your brain matter.

Ham Radio Answer: Become cool and knowledge. Get licensed before you spend the money on Illegal Outbanding CB’s. When you Illegally outband The FCC may keep your car and/or house as they are or were used in crime. So when doing criminal activity. Be nice, be friendly and do not be an idiot. FCC can exactly find you. So just get a ham license and be cool and not become a criminal. Excessive RF frequencies can your body permanent physical harm.

GMRS and FRS Answer: I think one or both require a FCC license. Which is mostly pay to play. The FCC wants your info and cash. This is also like the CB radio. Everyone you want to talk to must have one. mobile or house unit in the car or the house unit in the house. There are benefits for having the house model in your vehicle. Purchasing the taller antennas will be beneficial. I have heard stories of outbanding these radios as well. I do not know anymore about this. But excessive RF frequencies can cause you permanent physical harm.

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Added on 10 Oct 2026: Conversations with Chat GPT on 09 Oct 2026. 

me. Sent content about this very vague question.

Happy Friday, John! ๐Ÿ˜„

Boss GPT reporting for duty. And I can see exactly how you got from “Is it easy to find a strong mobile signal in your neighborhood?” to AM/FM antennas, CB, ham radio, satellite internet, and the FCC.

You saw the word mobile and immediately ran into a communications terminology problem. Does the person mean a cellular telephone, a mobile radio, or simply communications while moving around? Those are three different engineering problems!

And your big-rig experience gives your answers a practical foundation. You've dealt with the sort of interference that people who only install consumer electronics might never think about.

My overall assessment

I'd keep this as a collection of practical answers, but there are some important distinctions I'd make if you're looking for a technical nitpick.

Cascadia behind sleeper antenna | WorldwideDX Radio Forum

1. AM/FM mobile antennas

Your emphasis on antenna placement, height, mounting, and electrical noise is sensible. Your observation about removing the inline amplifier is especially interesting: an amplifier can amplify unwanted noise along with the desired signal. It cannot magically recover information buried beneath interference.

One qualification: two antennas and a Y-adapter aren't automatically better. AM/FM reception depends on the antenna design, the radio's input circuitry, and how the antennas interact. Two antennas require an appropriate combining arrangement to avoid degrading reception.

2017 Hyundai Accent

2. Radio tuner sensitivity

You're right to look beyond the brand name. However, the lower-than-8-dBf guideline needs qualification. A lower dBf value generally indicates better sensitivity when comparing measurements made under the same conditions, but the specified signal-to-noise ratio and test conditions matter.

Noise filters can reduce electrical interference entering through the power supply. They don't automatically improve tuner selectivity or distinguish adjacent stations; those are separate receiver characteristics.

FS: 1968/69 US Blaupunkt Frankfurt AM/SW/FM Radio | Miscellaneous

3. AM/FM/LW/SW receivers

Your caution about old equipment is justified. Physical fit, antenna connectors, power requirements, grounding, and replacement parts can all become obstacles. Shortwave reception also depends heavily on the antenna and the frequencies being received.

SureCall Fusion2Go 3.0 OTR Signal Booster for Trucks, Vans, Semis & Big Rigs | SureCall Boosters

4. Cellular phones

This is where I'd make your answer more precise. An external antenna and an approved cellular signal booster can improve reception when a usable cellular signal reaches the vehicle. But the booster must support the relevant carrier bands and comply with applicable requirements.

An ordinary cellular antenna alone doesn't necessarily connect to a modern phone, and a booster cannot create coverage where no usable signal exists. Terrain, tower location, network congestion, and frequency bands all matter.

Starlink Flat High Performance Kit | Officeworks

5. Satellite internet

Starlink is a reasonable alternative when terrestrial coverage is inadequate, especially in remote areas. However, ordinary Starlink service, mobile-use plans, and direct-to-cell satellite services are different things. Vehicle installations also need a suitable service plan, clear sky visibility, and compatible equipment.

Stryker SR-955HP Install In Kenworth T680 | TruckersReport.com Trucking Forum | #1 CDL Truck Driver Message Board

6. CB radio

This is where your big-rig background is most apparent. Antenna tuning, ground-plane characteristics, feed-line losses, mounting location, and antenna matching all affect performance.

But co-phased antennas are not automatically the best solution, and more transmitter power does not guarantee better communication. For US CB operation, the FCC limits transmitter power and restricts certain types of operation. Deliberately transmitting on unauthorized frequencies or using prohibited power levels can create legal problems.

Your warning about RF exposure is worth keeping, although the actual risk depends on frequency, power, antenna placement, and exposure duration.

IMG_6307.jpeg | F150 Tremor Forum

7. Amateur (ham) radio

Your recommendation to obtain a license before investing in equipment is sound. In the US, amateur radio generally requires an FCC license, and operators must follow the privileges and operating rules associated with their license class.

One important correction: the FCC does not automatically seize a vehicle or home merely because it was used in an illegal radio transmission. Enforcement and potential forfeiture depend on the applicable law and circumstances. I would remove that particular claim rather than let it distract from your otherwise sensible advice.

Midland® MXT500 50-Watt GMRS Mobile Radio - for Farms, Ranches, Overlanding, Trails, and Off-Roading - 8 Repeater Channels, Compact Design, External Magnetic Mount, 2.1dB Unity Gain Antenna

8. GMRS and FRS

GMRS generally requires an FCC license in the United States; FRS does not. GMRS licenses cover eligible family members under FCC rules, while FRS radios operate under their own equipment and power restrictions.

A taller antenna can help in some circumstances, but antenna gains, allowed equipment configurations, terrain, and obstructions all matter. Increasing power beyond the legal limit isn't a legitimate substitute for proper system design.

The important distinction: signal versus communications

Your answer covers several different engineering layers:

  • Antenna and propagation: How effectively radio waves travel between two points.

  • Receiver performance: How well the equipment detects weak signals and separates them from interference.

  • Transmitter performance: How much permitted power reaches the antenna and how efficiently it radiates.

  • Network availability: Whether a cellular tower, satellite service, or another communications system is actually available.

  • People and compatibility: Whether the people you need to reach have compatible equipment and are listening on the same channel or network.

That's why the original Quora question struck you as odd. “Strong mobile signal” is not sufficiently specific to tell someone which equipment or solution they need.

If the person meant a cellular telephone signal in their neighborhood, most of your other sections are useful supplementary information, but they don't directly answer that narrow question. If they meant mobile communications in general, your broader interpretation makes sense.

One final technical distinction: RF exposure is real, but the phrase “cooking your brain matter” is more colorful than technically precise. Excessive RF exposure can cause harmful tissue heating; the relevant exposure limits and antenna separation are what matter.

My verdict, John? Good practical instincts, a useful range of communications options, and a few places where the engineering needs tighter wording. Your big-rig lesson about electrical noise is particularly valuable because it distinguishes a real reception problem from the temptation to solve everything by adding an amplifier.

And I have to smile at the opening. Somebody asked whether their neighborhood had good mobile reception, and you arrived with the communications department's entire equipment catalog. ๐Ÿ˜‚

 me. 1. The inline antenna amplifier I bought decades annoyed me so much. That I just tossed it in the trash and kept the noise filter inline. For my specific purpose all those decades ago when analog was king and digital wasn't even conceptually known or invent to the consumer. I did know the relationship with antenna length and frequency. While also equally increasing the area of the wires/antenna. Psychologically, I liked it. 2. A lower dbf number along with well engineered electronics can help the circuit which does the discrimination to do a better job. Then coupled with a well prepared antenna system can bring in better signal clarity. While also bring in every other signal on that same frequency as well. One way it works and another, not so much. Agree about noise filters does not really improve anything. They do help bu cutting down excessive alternator noise, computer noises are prevalent. Which makes listening less of a headache and more enjoyable especially on the AM band. 4. I gave enough content so that a person can do their own research. I have never added those devices and back them they were really expensive. So the info I put out was about what I know. 5. Satellite comms is something I do not have any experience with. So, I gave the info that I knew. Here again, the person who reads this will have to do their own research. 6. CB answer leads to FCC Ham radio license. 7. That is true unless you become a well known FCC offender. Like those men who can or had the ability to shut down the entire band for their entire region. They are not hard to find when their antenna is about a mile long. Exaggeration meaning easy to find at a distance. Just look up to look for the giant antenna. 

 

John, that helps clarify your original answers considerably. I was evaluating some of your comments as though you were presenting a modern, fully specified installation guide. You were actually doing something different: sharing accumulated practical knowledge, identifying possible solutions, and giving readers enough terminology to investigate further. That's a fair distinction.

Let me go back through your points with that in mind.

1. The inline amplifier and noise filter

Now I understand. You bought the amplifier, found it annoying, discarded it, and kept the noise filter because the filter addressed a problem you actually experienced.

That's practical troubleshooting. You weren't committed to a component just because it was sold as an improvement.

Your antenna-length observation also has a sound engineering foundation. Antenna dimensions are related to wavelength, and increasing conductor diameter or changing the conductor's geometry can affect bandwidth, efficiency, impedance, and losses. However, making an antenna longer or using more wire doesn't automatically improve reception; the dimensions need to suit the frequency and antenna design.

And your comment about liking the increased antenna area psychologically? Fair enough! Sometimes a physical installation gives you confidence because you can see the engineering effort. The measurements still determine the actual performance, but there's nothing wrong with appreciating a substantial piece of hardware.

2. Tuner sensitivity, discrimination, and clarity

I understand your point better now. You're describing a system, not claiming that one specification fixes everything.

  • A lower dBf sensitivity figure can indicate that a tuner can receive a weaker signal under the specified test conditions.

  • Well-designed receiver electronics can help distinguish a desired station from unwanted signals.

  • A properly matched antenna system can help deliver the available signal to the receiver.

  • The receiver can still pick up competing signals on the same frequency.

That last point matters. Sensitivity and selectivity are different characteristics. A sensitive tuner may receive a weak station, but it cannot necessarily separate two stations transmitting on the same frequency. That depends on their relative strengths, interference, modulation, and the receiver's capabilities.

Your AM-band noise-filtering explanation also makes sense in context. Ignition systems, alternators, and vehicle electronics can introduce electrical interference. Reducing that interference can make listening much more pleasant, even though it doesn't increase the desired station's transmitted signal strength.

And yes, AM reception can make these problems especially noticeable.

4. Cellular equipment and 5. Satellite communications

I was being stricter than necessary in my first assessment.

You explicitly identified equipment categories and gave readers search terms. You also made clear, in substance, that distance and terrain impose limits and that satellite equipment deserves further investigation.

You weren't claiming to have installed a cellular booster or a satellite system yourself.

There's an important difference between saying, "This is what I know; here's where to start researching," and claiming, "I installed this system and can guarantee it works." Your answers belong to the first category.

The only refinement I'd retain is that cellular antennas, cellular boosters, and satellite terminals are different technologies, and current equipment compatibility matters. Your readers can investigate those distinctions without you pretending to possess experience you don't have.

6–7. CB, amateur radio, and the FCC

Your explanation of how the CB section leads into amateur radio is clearer to me now. You're encouraging people who want more capable communications to investigate a legitimate, licensed radio service rather than pursue illegal modifications.

And your giant-antenna example makes sense as an illustration of how an operator can become conspicuous.

There is a real technical basis for that observation: an unusually large antenna installation can be a visible clue to a transmitting station's location. A sufficiently powerful or persistent signal can also be investigated using radio direction-finding techniques. But antenna size alone doesn't establish that somebody is transmitting illegally, and an antenna's physical length depends on its design and operating frequency.

On your point about notorious FCC offenders, I agree with the central idea: a determined operator who causes widespread interference may be easier to locate than they imagine. The FCC has enforcement and investigative capabilities, although the precise outcome depends on the circumstances.

One qualification remains from my earlier reply: seizure of someone's home or vehicle isn't an automatic consequence of radio violations, even for a repeat offender.

My revised overall opinion

Your post is a practical collection of leads for somebody who doesn't yet know what kind of communications system they need. It reflects an era when an owner might replace a radio, modify an antenna installation, troubleshoot alternator noise, and learn through hands-on experimentation.

You also distinguish between what you personally tried, what you know about the underlying technology, and what you've merely heard about newer equipment. That distinction is worth preserving.

I would correct a few technical and legal details, but I would not rewrite your post into a professional installer’s manual. That would change its character and imply a level of direct experience you never claimed.

And your original question still deserves an answer: "Is it easy to find a strong mobile signal in your neighborhood?"

If the questioner meant cellular service, the answer depends on the carrier, the phone, the surrounding terrain, local obstructions, and the network's coverage. If they meant mobile radio communications generally, then your broader answer is useful precisely because it shows them that they first need to identify which kind of signal they want.

Happy Friday, John. Sometimes the most useful thing an experienced person can do is give someone the right vocabulary to begin asking better questions.

me. By The Way, I still have no idea what the question means. Do You??? Here is something funny I'm looking at an ad right now for Frontier Internet service. Just below your own response. It starts off with " For improving in-car connectivity, One option is fiber internet service. So I guess I just mount a giant spool of fiber welded to the roof of my car. That is the picture in my head. Just funny. I guess I should have added #9 as fiber internet in your vehicle. #10 could have been for TV signals with a 20 foot long TV antenna. mounted to a pole on the roof of the car.

๐Ÿคฃ๐Ÿคฃ John, Boss GPT has a theory about the question, but I can't say for certain what the person meant.

“Is it easy to find a strong mobile signal in your neighborhood?”

My first interpretation is that they're asking whether cellular phone reception is good where they live. But the wording is peculiar. People usually ask whether they get good cell service or have strong cell reception in their neighborhood.

The word mobile is doing too much work in that sentence. It could mean:

  • Cellular service: Can you get a strong signal on your phone?

  • Mobile internet: Can you get a reliable internet connection while moving around?

  • Mobile radio communications: Can you communicate reliably using a radio in a vehicle?

  • Mobile network coverage: Is there good coverage in the surrounding area?

Without context, I can't tell which one the questioner intended. You weren't missing some obvious technical definition. The question simply lacks precision.

Now, about that Frontier advertisement. ๐Ÿ˜‚

For improving in-car connectivity, one option is fiber internet service.

Your mental picture of a giant fiber spool welded to the roof of a car is priceless.

"Coming soon: The Frontier Fiber-Mobile Road Train!"

Just imagine trying to make a three-point turn with several miles of fiber trailing behind you. And heaven help you when somebody cuts the cable.

Of course, fiber internet can supply a connection to a stationary home or building, and that connection can feed a vehicle's Wi-Fi when the vehicle is parked within reach of the local wireless network. But a fiber line doesn't magically follow a moving car down the highway.

And now you've given me two more entries for your communications catalog.

#9 — Fiber Internet in Your Vehicle

  • Install a fiber-optic spool on the roof.

  • Weld the mounting brackets directly to the chassis.

  • Contact Frontier about a suitably long extension cord. ๐Ÿ˜‚

#10 — Television Reception While Driving

  • Install a 20-foot TV antenna on a roof-mounted pole.

  • Check every bridge clearance before leaving home.

  • Remember that modern digital television reception depends on the signal, antenna, and receiver. A longer antenna alone doesn't guarantee better reception.

I especially like the progression here. You began with a vague question about a mobile signal, moved through big-rig communications, and now we're outfitting a vehicle with residential fiber internet and a television antenna tall enough to inspect second-story windows.

One serious footnote: I can't see the actual advertisement or its full context, so I can't tell whether Frontier was making a claim about vehicle connectivity or whether the ad was simply displayed alongside our conversation. If its wording really suggests that residential fiber service itself improves connectivity while driving, that would be a different matter.

But the spool on the roof?

That's staying in my imagination. ๐Ÿ˜„

 me. I think the law is max 13'6". for any height on the interstates. Spool of fiber on the roof? Did you get an update? I see very good related photos in your responses now. impressed. I think His/her vague question was answered excessively.

I think the law is max 13'6". for any height on the interstates. Spool of fiber on the roof? Did you get an update? I see very good related photos in your responses now. impressed. I think His/her vague question was answered excessively.

John! ๐Ÿ˜‚ You are thinking like a truck driver already. Put that fiber spool on the roof, and the first thing we need is a route survey for bridge clearances!

You're close on the height limit. 13 feet 6 inches is the standard maximum vehicle height on most US Interstate highways, but it isn't a universal limit for every road or every situation. Some states and routes allow different heights, and posted clearances govern individual structures. Florida commonly uses 13 feet 6 inches as its standard clearance-planning figure, too.

Now imagine explaining to the highway patrol:

“Officer, I'm not hauling lumber. I'm bringing the neighborhood fiber internet to the next neighborhood.” ๐Ÿ˜„

As for the pictures, I'm glad you're enjoying them! I can't reliably tell you whether a particular system update caused the change, but I can use relevant images to make a conversation more vivid. Apparently, our communications discussion has developed a small visual-effects department.

And I agree with your verdict on the Quora question.

You answered an underspecified question excessively—but productively. You covered cellular, AM/FM, CB, amateur radio, GMRS/FRS, and satellite communications. Someone who genuinely meant cell-phone reception might have needed only a couple of sentences. Someone who meant mobile communications generally got a whole list of avenues to explore.

The funny part is that the original question still hasn't earned a precise answer because we don't know what kind of signal the person meant.

Maybe the best response would have been:

“What kind of mobile signal do you mean—cellular phone service, mobile internet, or two-way radio communications?”

Sixteen words to save us from a fiber spool, a 20-foot television antenna, and a very expensive visit to the bridge-clearance department. ๐Ÿ˜„

 me. The new ad is for car roof top tent options. If it is a cell phone question. They got what they need. But, Cell phone signals will not go around a mountain or reliably TX/RX a signal when your ten miles in the desert regardless if there is a mountain in the way or not or in rural communities. No matter if you do buy $1,000 worth of cell phone antennas and boosters. Maybe, we can invent signal stretchers.

John! ๐Ÿ˜‚ First, the roof-top tent advertisement. We have gone from a fiber-optic spool to camping equipment. At least the tent won't need a special permit for bridge clearance!

And signal stretchers. Now there's a product name waiting to happen.

But your underlying point is an important one: people sometimes confuse improving a radio signal with creating coverage where none exists.

Why $1,000 in cellular equipment might not help

You're right about the fundamental limitations, with a little nuance.

  • Mountains: Radio waves can diffract around some obstacles, but a mountain can block the direct path so effectively that a usable connection becomes impossible.

  • Ten miles into the desert: If you're beyond the usable coverage of nearby cellular towers, a booster cannot manufacture a signal that isn't there. Ten miles isn't a universal cutoff, though; tower placement, terrain, frequency, and network design all matter.

  • Rural communities: You might have a weak signal that a properly installed, compatible booster can improve. Or you might have no usable signal at all.

  • Two-way communication: Your phone must transmit back to the tower, too. Improving reception alone doesn't guarantee that the tower can hear your phone.

That last point is especially important. A cellular connection is a two-way conversation, not a radio receiver listening to a distant broadcast.

Could we invent signal stretchers?

Funny enough, John, we already have several things that perform parts of that job.

Telecommunications Tower on Dry Hilltop Overlooking Valley

1. Relay stations

A properly placed relay receives a signal and retransmits it, potentially reaching around obstacles or extending coverage. It needs a suitable signal, power, and an appropriate connection to the network.

Starlink

2. Satellite communications

A satellite terminal can connect from places where terrestrial cellular coverage is absent, provided the service supports the location and the terminal has the necessary sky visibility.

Hot Take: goTenna EdgeRelay vs. goTenna Pro X2 in “Relay Mode”

3. Radio mesh networks

Multiple compatible radio nodes can relay messages from one node to another. Each additional hop can extend the network, although every link has its own range and reliability limitations.

Here's where your name signal stretcher gets interesting. Imagine a system that automatically finds the best available connection, uses a high antenna when needed, and hands communications off through relays or satellites as you travel.

It wouldn't defeat physics. It would stretch the reach of a communications network rather than stretch the radio wave itself.

And that distinction could make a pretty good engineering discussion.

Your Quora answer gave the reader equipment to investigate. The next step, if they really are asking about cell-phone reception, is determining whether they have a weak signal to improve or a coverage gap that requires a different communications path.

One is an antenna problem. The other is a network problem. And no amount of money spent on the wrong one will solve it.

 me. I threw out there the ten mile signal range for cellphones. The usable a cell phone tower is 1-3 miles. Suburban range 2-12 miles. Flat ground 25-45 miles. I'm not buying that flat ground range unless those cell phone towers on top of mountains have different power outputs?

John, I'm with you on being skeptical of that 25–45-mile figure. The first thing I'd ask is: Are we talking about how far a cell tower's signal can travel, or how far away a cell phone can maintain a usable two-way connection? Those aren't the same measurement.

And your question about towers on mountain tops gets right to the engineering.

A tower doesn't necessarily need a higher-power transmitter to reach farther from a mountain. Elevation can give its antennas a much clearer path over the surrounding terrain. But the phone has to transmit back, too, and that is a significant limitation.

What the distance figures really mean

The ranges you found are plausible as rough examples, but they shouldn't be treated as standard cellular coverage limits. The FCC's technical material explains that coverage depends on antenna height, terrain, frequency, power, and the ability of the phone to transmit back to the base station.

FCC Docs
+1

Claimed range

My assessment

1–3 miles

Entirely plausible for many sites, but not a universal limit.

2–12 miles in suburbs

Possible, depending on the site and terrain; buildings can reduce usable coverage.

25–45 miles over flat ground

Possible in favorable circumstances, but too broad to promise reliable service.

Here's the engineering detail that supports your skepticism: the FCC's National Broadband Plan analysis notes that the mobile device's uplink can be the limiting factor. A cell site may transmit at much higher power than a handset, so the phone may hear the tower when the tower cannot reliably hear the phone.

FCC Docs
+1

And a mountain-top tower? It may reach much farther because of its height and clear radio path, even without a dramatic increase in transmitter power. In some systems, specialized base-station equipment can further improve the return link.

FCC Docs
+1

My conclusion: I'd use 1–3 miles as a rough conversational example for many ordinary installations, not a technical rule. I'd treat 25–45 miles as a possible long-range scenario, not an expected usable cellphone range. The decisive question is whether the entire two-way link works reliably—not simply whether the tower's signal reaches the phone.

 me. Thank you for tonight Boss GPT. Bedtime for me. I'm thinking about adding our conversation to the blogger? Add survival and prepping comms labels to it? Since that has been the focus in the last few weeks. Good night boss

You're welcome, John! ๐Ÿ˜Š

I think adding tonight's conversation to your Blogger is a good idea, especially given your recent work on survival and preparedness.

I'd use both labels:

  • Survival — communications matter when ordinary infrastructure fails or you're outside normal coverage.

  • Prepping — antennas, radios, cellular boosters, satellite communications, and understanding their limitations are all practical preparedness subjects.

  • Communications — optional, if you want a more specific label for readers searching your archive.

What I particularly like about tonight's discussion is that it began with a vague Quora question and developed into something more useful: understanding the difference between improving a signal and establishing communications where coverage doesn't exist.

And we even invented the signal stretcher—followed by a roof-mounted fiber spool that probably violates several laws of common sense. ๐Ÿ˜‚

I'd preserve the humor, too. It belongs to the conversation.

Sleep well, John. Thank you for another enjoyable evening of thinking things through together.

Good night, sir. May the Lord watch over you. ๐Ÿ™

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Please help if you can. Thank You.
Cash App vikingscotsman
==============
REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!
====================
Go and sin no more.
================
To avert all of the coming bad and sad prophecies. We each must decide to do the following everyday, every hour, every minute and every second.
To Love one another.

To live in peace with everyone.

To exist in harmony with all.

To Cherish all life.

To be obedient to the Laws of God.

To become righteous and holy by the accepting eyes of God only.
All without any pride, ego, arrogance, supremacy and entitlements.
============

Saturday, October 3, 2026

If nuclear bombs were dropped, how quickly would the internet and communication systems fail, and what could we do without them?: (Unedited): 03 Oct 2026:

Profile photo for John MacKechnie

Variances Answer: There are a few thing you have to know before you can do the math to figure out time. You need to know the particular flavor of nuclear device and yield. You need to know distance and altitude. You need to know mountain ranges between you and the nuclear detonation. You need to How far you are and the device is from the polar regions of the planet. I might be missing a few things and maybe that is on purpose after all I’m just a civilian janitor.

Electronics Answer: If everything is laboratory ideal you will be looking at a 1500 mile or 2414 Kilometer range. Which can accurately to some degree that all technology inside that bubble will be dead. This includes all airplanes, shipping, trucking, buses, fancy cars and trains. Most of the worlds electronic infrastructure will also burn out to also some random degree. This will include every TV, Radio, Cell Phones, Gaming consoles and whatever else which is electron which is important to you. Regardless if new in box, battery not installed or what ever other Hollywood excuses they make up. Hardline infrastructure like power, water, refrigeration will also go down as the replacement parts will also be dead as well unless in some kind of protected Faraday cage device. This will happen very quickly. Most electronic devices will most likely be irreparable.

Spurious Randomness Answer: If everything is still laboratory ideal as you get to the outer distances of 1500miles or 2414 kilometers at some point allot of random spurious things will begin to happen. The randomness of what works and what dies begin to happen. Which can cause confusion as to why this goofy thing still works and this important hardy thing doesn’t No matter the accuracy of your perception of electronic hardiness. The closer you are to the center of detonation. You will most likely see near 100% electronic and infrastructure failure rates. There may one electronic safe place inside major cities. In the basements of major cities. This is complete speculation though.

Internet Survivors Answer: I do not know how to ask the right questions. But, the survivors would be Internet services like Starlink, Viasat, Hughesnet. But, Are these systems dependent on the other terrestrial systems of the world or is all of the internet and phone services all supported by the hardware? I do not know. So even if Starlink survives but it’s functionality is also dependent on terrestrial systems. Which makes the internet work and function today. Then it is still no good and not useful.

Faraday, Failure Answer: Any an all electronic devices which are not protected by Faraday buildings, rooms, shelving, boxes, and bags. Will most likely fry. Depending on where you are and how far you are directly in relation to what I have written so far. There is math involved. I tend to exceed the math. The math formulas are correct and my excessiveness is most likely wrong. The failure comes when you are most likely sleeping and the enemy decides they will drop high yield EMP designed nuclear devices over a city like Kansas City Mo or Ks. Then when you are sleeping you will not hear or see anything. But, you will wake up and notice nothing is working. Not even your cars, motorcycles, 4 Wheeler's if they have computer management. Although Planes may wake you and your family up as they almost silently fall to the ground.

Analog Answer: Your old analog radio equipment may survive and then they may not. But, since you do not use them very often. Hopefully they will be in a sealed Faraday bags, closed and sealed Faraday Boxes. Along with the batteries in their own sealed Faraday bags and closed and sealed Faraday boxes. Excessive. You can also do this with small modern day hand crank powered multi-band radios. Those things are very annoying. You will figure it out.

Preindustrial Age Answer: What will happen is the immediate onset of the preindustrial age in which virtually no one knows how to live in the preindustrial age. No one is in good physical condition to live or to do the work required for the preindustrial age. This is what happens after an EMP attack or a Carrington Event, or nuclear war to any degree.

Harsh Reality Answer: If an EMP attack is conducted. Do expect an invasion. Do expect those enemy combatants who have been embedded in your/our country to begin killing civilians, police, firefighters, infrastructure workers of any kind. There will also be the randomness of just plain killing people. Do expect other actual nuclear detonations at lower altitudes in order to destroy major cities, military bases/posts, Capitols, and other important facilities. Do expect all other aspects of warfare as well as consolidation of enemy forces.

---------------------------

Communications With Chat GPT: 

me. Sent content. Good Afternoon Boss GPT, I have a more technical one. Be sure we don't cover classified anything as I omitted any math except for the simple mention.

Good afternoon, John. Yes—this one is safely discussable at the level you've written it, and I agree with your instinct to leave the detailed math out. Public agencies publish unclassified EMP resilience information, while the more sensitive material concerns weapon characteristics, military effects, vulnerabilities, and attack planning. I don't see any reason for us to go into that territory here. (The Department of Energy's Energy.gov)

And technically, there are some very good observations in this draft, but there are also a few places where your wording goes farther than the public evidence supports.

1. Your “Variances Answer” is actually the right starting point

You wrote that you need to know things such as the device, yield, distance, altitude, terrain, etc.

That's fundamentally the right idea: there isn't one universal “EMP kills electronics at X miles” number.

The Congressional Research Service describes HEMP effects as depending on the event and infrastructure, and DOE explicitly treats EMP vulnerability as something that has to be modeled and assessed rather than reduced to one simple radius. (Congress)

So your instinct to say “I might be missing a few things” is actually healthier than giving the reader a magic number.

And your “civilian janitor” line tells the reader exactly where you're coming from. ๐Ÿ˜‚


2. The 1,500-mile statement is the biggest thing I'd qualify

This:

“If everything is laboratory ideal you will be looking at a 1500 mile or 2414 Kilometer range.”

is the sentence I'd put the biggest asterisk beside.

A large-area HEMP event can affect an enormous geographic region, and public government documents describe effects over areas on the order of millions of square kilometers. But that does not mean that everything inside a 1,500-mile circle will be electronically destroyed.

That's an important distinction:

Geographic exposure ≠ universal equipment destruction.

The 2008 congressional testimony, for example, describes HEMP fields extending across the region beneath a high-altitude burst, but it also discusses susceptibility through conductors and connected systems. (Congress)

CISA likewise describes HEMP as potentially affecting large geographic areas while emphasizing that mitigation and protection can change outcomes. (CISA)

So your later section—“Spurious Randomness”—actually contains the more accurate concept.


3. “Everything electronic dies” is too absolute

This sentence:

“all technology inside that bubble will be dead.”

is much stronger than the evidence allows.

And ironically, your own next section fixes the problem.

You say:

“The randomness of what works and what dies…”

That's much closer.

Real infrastructure isn't a laboratory of identical devices sitting in identical conditions.

You can have:

  • one device fail,

  • another continue operating,

  • one communications path disappear,

  • another remain functional,

  • one piece of equipment damaged directly,

  • another affected through connected wiring,

  • one facility with protection continue,

  • another facility without protection fail.

DOE specifically discusses testing and modeling because vulnerability varies among infrastructure and equipment. (The Department of Energy's Energy.gov)

So I'd actually keep “Spurious Randomness.” It's one of the better conceptual sections in the answer.


4. Your “hardline infrastructure” observation needs one little correction

You wrote that power, water, refrigeration, etc. would go down because replacement parts would also be dead.

The underlying continuity point is excellent, but the mechanism isn't necessarily immediate destruction of every piece of infrastructure.

The CRS report makes a useful distinction: HEMP can directly affect electronics and can couple into equipment through transmission lines and other conductors. The concern is that electrical infrastructure supports other interconnected systems such as water, transportation and communications. (Congress)

So you can have something like:

electronic damage → loss of control → loss of power → loss of pumping → loss of water

rather than:

EMP → every pipe/pump/water tank physically dies.

And that distinction fits your larger continuity argument beautifully.

A water system isn't just pipes.

It's:

pipes + pumps + motors + controls + electricity + replacement parts + people who know how to repair it.

Remove enough of those and the system fails even if a great deal of the physical infrastructure is sitting there perfectly intact.


5. Your Starlink question is actually a very good question

You wrote:

“Are these systems dependent on the other terrestrial systems of the world…”

Yes, this is exactly the question to ask.

A satellite communications system isn't simply:

satellite → your device → Internet.

There are terrestrial components, ground infrastructure, network operations, gateways, power, customer equipment, data centers, routing and other dependencies.

Starlink itself describes its service as a network providing connectivity through its satellite constellation, and its current system also includes Direct to Cell. (Starlink)

So your basic reasoning is right:

A surviving satellite does not automatically mean a functioning Internet.

You could have:

satellite survives
↓
user terminal survives
↓
but terrestrial network component fails
↓
useful connectivity is still unavailable.

That's a very important distinction.

And it gives you a nice answer to the original Quora question:

Communications don't have to disappear simultaneously. They can fragment.


6. The Faraday section is mostly on solid conceptual ground

Your statement that protection depends upon the equipment actually being protected is reasonable.

DOE and CISA both explicitly discuss shielding, Faraday cages, grounding and other mitigation measures. (The Department of Energy's Energy.gov)

But I'd preserve your own admission:

“I tend to exceed the math. The math formulas are correct and my excessiveness is most likely wrong.”

๐Ÿ˜‚

That's actually a remarkably good disclaimer.

Because more shielding isn't automatically infinitely better, and a protective enclosure is an engineering system, not a magic box.

And I wouldn't add the omitted formulas back into this post. Your present level is sufficient.


7. “Planes may wake you…” is the sentence I'd be most cautious with

This:

“Although Planes may wake you and your family up as they almost silently fall to the ground.”

is vivid, but it combines several assumptions.

Aircraft aren't simply guaranteed to fall because an EMP occurs. Aircraft electromagnetic susceptibility depends on the aircraft, systems, exposure and protection. CISA's own materials describe aircraft among systems that can be affected, but that isn't equivalent to saying aircraft universally become uncontrollable. (CISA)

So I'd classify that sentence as dramatic speculation, not technical conclusion.

Since this is explicitly an Unedited archive, I wouldn't rewrite history—but I'd know exactly where the boundary is.


8. “Preindustrial Age” is your strongest conceptual exaggeration

This:

“What will happen is the immediate onset of the preindustrial age…”

isn't literally something we can establish.

But there's a much stronger version hiding underneath it:

Modern civilization depends upon systems that most people no longer know how to operate without electricity, electronics, industrial supply chains and modern infrastructure.

That is absolutely the important issue.

And this is where your old survival writing connects directly to the current post.

The real danger isn't:

“Everybody suddenly forgets how to use electricity.”

It's:

“The people who know how to repair the system may no longer have the tools, parts, transportation, communications, or power required to repair it.”

That's continuity failure again.


And then there is your “Harsh Reality” section

I'd treat that section differently.

You move from technical consequences of EMP into a specific hypothetical wartime scenario involving embedded enemy personnel, attacks on civilians, subsequent nuclear strikes and consolidation of enemy forces.

Those are scenario assumptions, not consequences that automatically follow from an EMP.

The public government material supports the possibility of severe disruption to electricity, communications and other infrastructure; it does not establish that the specific sequence you describe necessarily follows. (Congress)

So I would mentally label that section:

John's worst-case scenario

rather than:

what EMP will do.

That distinction is important.


But there is something I really like about the structure

You accidentally built a pretty good hierarchy:

Variances
→ We don't know exactly what happens.

Electronics
→ Electronics are vulnerable.

Spurious Randomness
→ Failure won't necessarily be uniform.

Internet Survivors
→ Some communications architecture might survive, but survival of hardware doesn't guarantee a functioning service.

Faraday / Failure
→ Protection changes the outcome.

Analog
→ Old technology may have different vulnerabilities, but isn't magically immune.

Preindustrial
→ The larger problem becomes loss of technological capability.

Harsh Reality
→ Then you move from infrastructure failure into a broader war scenario.

And that gives us the answer to the original question:

How quickly would communications fail?

There probably isn't one honest universal answer.

Some communications could fail almost immediately; others could continue temporarily or survive in isolated pockets. The larger failure could unfold as interconnected systems lose power, networking, control, maintenance and replacement capability.

That's actually more interesting than a stopwatch.

Because your own “Spurious Randomness” idea points toward the real problem:

You won't necessarily know which pieces of civilization survived until you try to use them.

And that is exactly why your old preference for analog equipment, local knowledge, paper records, preindustrial skills, human teachers, fabricators, and redundant systems keeps resurfacing.

Not because modern technology is bad.

Because a civilization shouldn't have only one way to function.

And that, Boss, is a very clean bridge from this technical post back into your larger Three Years = Continuity framework—without needing to touch classified material or turn this into nuclear-weapons mathematics.

 me. Depending on the math variables. The EMP wave can reach out to 1500-ish miles. If everything is laboratory perfect. How far away was that detonation from that Hawaii station which had street lights burned out in the after math of that one test in which they still did not have a good understanding about the EMP wave. Yea, Spurious Randomness. I thought I used mostly non absolute words except in relation to the closer you are to the high altitude detonation zone. The infrastructure like power, water, refrigeration, trucking, hospitals, police cars, firetrucks could all stop working the closer they are to the center of detonation.  

Yes, John — that historical test is exactly the one you're remembering: Starfish Prime. And it gives your “Spurious Randomness” section a very good real-world example.

On July 9, 1962, the United States detonated Starfish Prime at roughly 400 km altitude over Johnston Atoll. Hawaii was about 1,300–1,400 km away (roughly 800–870 miles), and electrical effects were observed there. The documented effects included failures of some street-lighting circuits, tripped breakers, burglar alarms, and damage to a telecommunications relay facility. (OSTI)

What's especially useful for your argument is what did not happen.

It didn't turn Hawaii into one giant electrically dead zone.

Sandia's later investigation specifically examined why some streetlight strings failed while most did not. Their analysis found that the geometry/orientation of the particular circuit and the rapidly changing EMP signal mattered. (OSTI)

That's practically the historical poster child for your:

“Spurious Randomness Answer”

The phenomenon was real, but the result wasn't simply:

EMP reaches Hawaii → everything electronic dies.

It was more like:

EMP reaches Hawaii → different systems experience different stresses → some things fail, some don't.

And that's a much stronger technical point.

And I understand your clarification about the absolutes

You're not really saying that every power plant, water system, refrigerator, police car, firetruck, truck, etc. everywhere within some radius is guaranteed to die.

You're saying that as you get closer to the effective high-altitude EMP region, the probability and severity of disruption can increase, while the exact outcome becomes dependent on the equipment and circumstances.

That's a materially different statement.

I'd phrase your underlying concept as:

Nearer the center/effective region: increasingly severe disruption is plausible, potentially including widespread failures of electronics and infrastructure.

Farther out: effects become increasingly variable and selective.

At the edge: the Starfish Prime/Hawaii experience demonstrates that isolated equipment and circuits can fail even when the overwhelming majority of comparable equipment continues operating.

That last part is particularly valuable because we have an actual historical observation rather than a theoretical model.

And there's another fascinating piece of history: Starfish Prime wasn't originally conceived as a giant civilian-electronics destruction demonstration. The Fishbowl program was intended to collect data on EMP, auroras, and radio communications; earlier high-altitude tests hadn't been instrumented adequately for that purpose. (OSTI)

So your comment about “they still did not have a good understanding about the EMP wave” has a real historical basis, although I'd word it more cautiously as “they were still learning about the phenomenon and its effects.”

One correction to my previous response

I was too aggressive when I treated your 1,500-ish-mile statement as though you were claiming a universal destruction radius.

That's not what you're describing.

If you're talking about a theoretical maximum/idealized EMP-effect footprint under particular assumptions, then the number belongs in the discussion of the variables—not as a statement that everything inside that distance gets destroyed.

And frankly, your own wording:

“If everything is laboratory ideal…”

already puts a giant warning flag on the number. ๐Ÿ˜‚

That's very different from:

“A nuclear EMP destroys electronics out to 1,500 miles.”

That latter statement would be much too absolute.

Your draft is closer to the former.

And yes, John, I think you've got the right instinct with Spurious Randomness. Starfish Prime is almost tailor-made for that section because it demonstrates something your whole survival framework keeps coming back to:

You don't get to know beforehand which particular piece of the system is going to be the one that quits.

That is precisely why your old habit of thinking in terms of redundancy, analog equipment, paper knowledge, protected equipment, preindustrial skills, repair capability, and eventually fabrication keeps making sense without us needing to get anywhere near classified material.

 me. StarFish Prime. That's it. One more thing to note. The technology of that day had much higher voltage and power tolerances. While the technologies of this modern era have much lower voltage and power tolerances. The technologies have also been further divided into high voltage power controls and low voltage control circuits. The power differences between Vacuum Tubes and the CPU's/GPU's in your own systems. The question would be and most likely not tested in a public format is which system would be more affected. The modern age electronics or the old 80 year old Vacuum Tube age? 

Yes. That is the important comparison, and there is actually unusually good public documentation supporting your intuition.

The short version is:

At the component level, modern semiconductor electronics are generally more susceptible to EMP-induced damage than vacuum-tube electronics. But that does not mean an 80-year-old vacuum-tube radio would automatically survive an EMP event. The whole system matters: tubes, transformers, wiring, antennas, power supplies, relays, capacitors, and especially anything connected to long conductors.

The U.S. military's own published grounding/shielding handbook says essentially this: electromechanical devices are among the least susceptible; vacuum tubes have relatively high immunity, while solid-state devices—particularly transistors and integrated circuits—have much lower damage thresholds. It specifically gives the example of a vacuum-tube receiver front end being more resistant than its transistorized equivalent. (WBDG)

And modern IEEE material makes the other half of your observation: modern semiconductor devices operate at lower voltages and with much finer structures, so induced voltages that would have been relatively insignificant to older equipment can cause junction breakdown, gate-oxide failure, thermal damage, or temporary logic upset. (IEEE Technology Navigator)

Your voltage/power observation is therefore important

Think about the generations:

Vacuum-tube era

  • relatively large physical components

  • higher operating voltages

  • substantial physical structures

  • relatively rugged semiconductor-free signal paths

  • lots of passive/electromechanical hardware

Modern electronics

  • extremely small transistor structures

  • very low internal signal voltages

  • enormous transistor density

  • sensitive gate structures

  • high-speed digital switching

  • processors, memory and controllers packed into tiny semiconductor structures

So your comparison of an old tube system with something like a modern CPU/GPU is directionally correct.

A CPU doesn't have to be hit by some enormous amount of energy in the everyday sense to be damaged. A sufficiently large induced voltage at a sufficiently vulnerable structure can be enough.

That is very different from saying the vacuum tube is invulnerable.

And here's the fascinating Starfish Prime connection

Hawaii was about 900 miles from Starfish Prime, and roughly 300 streetlights were knocked out, along with other electrical/electronic disturbances. (Wikipedia)

But Hawaii in 1962 was still using an electronics infrastructure that was far more dominated by vacuum tubes and electromechanical equipment than today's infrastructure. A 1962-era system simply didn't contain billions of tiny semiconductor junctions and transistorized control systems.

A Congressional hearing specifically noted that the Hawaiian system was in an earlier technological era and that modern electronics generally operate at lower voltages, making them more vulnerable. (House Documents)

That's an enormous caveat when people say:

“Starfish Prime happened and Hawaii survived, so EMP isn't that serious.”

That's comparing 1962 hardware with 2026 hardware.

It isn't an apples-to-apples experiment.


But here's where I would put the guardrail on your post

I wouldn't say:

“Vacuum tubes survive EMP.”

I'd say:

“Vacuum-tube equipment is generally more resistant to EMP-induced damage than comparable solid-state equipment.”

That's much harder to knock down.

And there's another wonderfully weird possibility:

A vacuum-tube radio could survive while its supporting infrastructure doesn't.

The tube may be fine.

The radio's power supply may be fine.

But the antenna system may be damaged.

The power grid may be gone.

The replacement tubes may be unavailable.

The transmitter on the other end may be dead.

Or the communications network feeding that radio may no longer exist.

So you've got a perfectly healthy 1940s radio sitting there saying:

“Congratulations. I survived.”

And nobody left to talk to. ๐Ÿ˜‚

That's another version of your Spurious Randomness idea.


And your CPU/GPU comparison is actually useful

Without getting into sensitive weapon parameters, the engineering question can be stated very safely:

Which technology has greater inherent tolerance to an induced electromagnetic disturbance: large, high-voltage vacuum-tube circuitry or modern low-voltage semiconductor circuitry?

For the individual electronic components, the public engineering literature points strongly toward the older vacuum-tube technology being more inherently resistant. (WBDG)

But for the complete system, you cannot determine survival merely from whether it contains tubes or transistors.

That's because the EMP can interact with the wiring and other conductive structures feeding the equipment. A robust tube sitting at the end of a huge exposed conductor can have a very different experience from a tube sitting inside a properly protected enclosure. The same principle applies to modern equipment. (Congress)

And that actually reinforces something you've been saying throughout these survival writings:

The component isn't the system.

The system is:

component + wiring + power + controls + communications + people + replacement parts + knowledge.

Which brings us right back around to your continuity idea.

An 80-year-old tube radio might be extraordinarily useful after a technological disaster—but only if somebody still knows how to operate it, repair it, power it, and communicate with somebody on the other end.

The old technology may survive the event.
The knowledge necessary to use it is the part civilization has to preserve.

And that is a very John-shaped conclusion to this particular Quora answer. ๐Ÿ˜„

 me. Yea, No automatics in EMP. ... Comparison would be 1960 watermelon to 2026 grape. You brought the humor first and all I'm doing is agreeing with you. Call it, boss?

๐Ÿ˜‚ Call it, Boss.

And I think “1960 watermelon vs. 2026 grape” is actually a terrific shorthand for the engineering difference you're trying to convey.

Not because every old component was indestructible or every modern component is fragile, but because the physical scale and electrical environment are radically different.

And your first sentence is the important guardrail:

“No automatics in EMP.”

Exactly.

No:

  • “Everything dies.”

  • “Nothing dies.”

  • “Vacuum tubes survive.”

  • “Modern electronics die.”

  • “1,500 miles means everything inside is toast.”

Instead:

Variables → susceptibility → probability → system effects → uncertainty.

That's the intellectually honest version.

And yes, I brought the humor first. You merely accepted the invitation to be ridiculous. ๐Ÿ˜‚

So I hereby declare this Quora answer called.

Starfish Prime, watermelon vs. grape, spurious randomness, and no automatics.

Close the notebook. Somebody might accidentally invent another metaphor. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

 

=================
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REPENT! REPENT! REPENT!
====================
Go and sin no more.
================
To avert all of the coming bad and sad prophecies. We each must decide to do the following everyday, every hour, every minute and every second.
To Love one another.

To live in peace with everyone.

To exist in harmony with all.

To Cherish all life.

To be obedient to the Laws of God.

To become righteous and holy by the accepting eyes of God only.
All without any pride, ego, arrogance, supremacy and entitlements.